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  #181  
Old 28-11-2023, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by David of Kent View Post
Late to the party here, but Dave Swindlehurst was never 22. Ever
nor was Doris...
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  #182  
Old 28-11-2023, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
Individually I wonder how good they really were, but their is no doubting as a team they were immense. Few if any went on to better things.

Ironically the only one who really went on to the international scene was Fenwick, and I always felt he was the wink link (or worse) player in that team.

Seemed to be one of Venables' favourites for some odd reason.

Edit: I forgot about Kenny Sansom... he of course did go on to better things.
And Nicholas (and to a lesser degree Walsh) A fair few of the rest had fairly long stints at other division one clubs.
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  #183  
Old 28-11-2023, 06:14 PM
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And TV gave me one of my biggest laughs when reading a court case. In one of the cases against Goldberg in the fallout from the second administration the Honourable Mr Justice Lewison wrote the following in his judgement:-

"Mr Venables was a controversial figure. The majority view among football fans was that he had unrivalled skills in motivating teams. Mr Barnes went so far as to call his choice as coach "an inspired move" in football terms. He also said that Mr Goldberg was in awe of Mr Venables. Others, such as Mr Grimes, thought that he was overrated, even as a coach and manager. There was a school of thought among the board that, whatever Mr Venables' skills may have been on the football field and at the training ground, his activities, particularly those relating to financial matters, left much to be desired. Mr Hume-Kendall said that Mr Noades had warned Mr Goldberg against engaging Mr Venables, predicting that "he will eat you alive, and you will go bankrupt"; but that Mr Goldberg was confident that he could keep Mr Venables under control."

Made me laugh a lot - takes one to know one I feel.
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  #184  
Old 28-11-2023, 06:19 PM
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A fair few of the rest had fairly long stints at other division one clubs.
And John Burridge had short stints at about 75 other clubs.
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  #185  
Old 28-11-2023, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Philipw View Post
And Nicholas (and to a lesser degree Walsh) A fair few of the rest had fairly long stints at other division one clubs.
Did they ? Kenny certainly did but the rest

Paul Hinslewood stayed at Palace for a fair length of time

Jim Cannon, one club man but never played in the top flight again.

Billy Gilbert spent time at Portsmouth over a 100 games but did not fill his potential

Peter Nicholas over 50 games at Arsenal before returning to Palace then became a bit of a journeyman.

Jerry Murphy after remaining at Palace for a while moved around but again never reached his potential.

I would put Vince Hilaire & Ian Walsh in those brackets as well.

Other than Kenny only Terry Fenwick was a regular top flight performer.

Dave Swindlehurst had a reasonable career at Derby & West Ham.

John Burridge almost played for all 92 clubs. His third highest appearences was for Palace, but he was clearly a player who could not settle.

Steve Kember was already struggling with injury issues at the end of 79/80 season finished his career in Canada.where he finished his playing career.

IMHO the 78/79 team were a close knit group the fact that all but one had come through the youth team. TV was key to their confidence. Once he left and the team broke up many lost their way and never reached the hights they may have done.
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  #186  
Old 28-11-2023, 07:29 PM
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  #187  
Old 28-11-2023, 07:30 PM
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nor was Doris...
You clearly don’t remember him playing as a striker. You could blow him over with a sneeze.
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  #188  
Old 28-11-2023, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
Superb. Never seen that before. Great to see Vince and his family.
So sad about TV. Legend of English football really
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  #189  
Old 28-11-2023, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Percy Dalton View Post
Did they ? Kenny certainly did but the rest

Paul Hinslewood stayed at Palace for a fair length of time

Jim Cannon, one club man but never played in the top flight again.

Billy Gilbert spent time at Portsmouth over a 100 games but did not fill his potential

Peter Nicholas over 50 games at Arsenal before returning to Palace then became a bit of a journeyman.

Jerry Murphy after remaining at Palace for a while moved around but again never reached his potential.

I would put Vince Hilaire & Ian Walsh in those brackets as well.

Other than Kenny only Terry Fenwick was a regular top flight performer.

Dave Swindlehurst had a reasonable career at Derby & West Ham.

John Burridge almost played for all 92 clubs. His third highest appearences was for Palace, but he was clearly a player who could not settle.

Steve Kember was already struggling with injury issues at the end of 79/80 season finished his career in Canada.where he finished his playing career.

IMHO the 78/79 team were a close knit group the fact that all but one had come through the youth team. TV was key to their confidence. Once he left and the team broke up many lost their way and never reached the hights they may have done.
Samson, Fenwick, Nicholas, Gilbert and Hilaire all had decent stints (say 3 or 4 years plus) at top division clubs. And to a lesser degree Swindlehurst.
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  #190  
Old 28-11-2023, 08:38 PM
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Bubbs, this is magnificent. Had never seen any of the ‘Vince’ programme before. Have you got the rest of the episode by any chance?
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  #191  
Old 28-11-2023, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
That's absolutely blown my mind. I was there!

It was the first time I ever saw Palace play (against Rijnsburger Boys) think I was 7, me and my Dad spoke about it last night, the only thing I remember was Venables shouting at one of our players, 'give him some ******* verbals!'

I fell in love with Vince that day, my all time favourite player.

Amazing, Thank you so much for posting that.
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  #192  
Old 28-11-2023, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by David of Kent View Post
Late to the party here, but Dave Swindlehurst was never 22. Ever
I hope he was because he is 4 month younger than me...
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  #193  
Old 28-11-2023, 11:10 PM
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Bubbs, this is magnificent. Had never seen any of the ‘Vince’ programme before. Have you got the rest of the episode by any chance?
No. I just saw the video was uploaded today on YouTube.
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  #194  
Old 29-11-2023, 01:08 AM
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Still never worked out how our season ended on a Wednesday night and the rest of the Division (bar Chesterfield?) ended the following Saturday.
We were originally scheduled to play Northampton Town away on the last day of the season. But in those days Northampton Town shared The County Ground with Northamptonshire County Cricket Club so NTFC's home matches in the first and last month of the season had to be rescheduled. What should have been our final match was brought forward to Tues 15th March which (as you recall) we lost 0-3.
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  #195  
Old 29-11-2023, 05:22 AM
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Will always be remembered fondly for his 1st spell with us. Great times, great football and memories.

Pity that was that was soured by his leaving for QPR and the terrible 2nd spell which helped us go into administration.

RIP.
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  #196  
Old 29-11-2023, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
Another time and place... beers in the dressing room and a classic kit.

Who was the goalkeeper? I don't think it was Fry. Could it have been Terry Gennoe?

Looked like they were playing a pub team... reminded me of out tours of Belgium with the Sunday League team.
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  #197  
Old 29-11-2023, 06:02 AM
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My penny's worth on this discussion.

Taking advantage of idiots is not a crime. Seems TV did that with both Bloye and Goldberg. As relates to those transfers to QPR, no players will sign for a new club unless they have trust in that manager, and I guess they conversely lost trust in Palace ownership in that time. There were some great insights from our more senior BBSers in this thread and I imagine they are generally accurate concerning what happened over those years, but the players at the time will have known even more and will have made their decisions correspondingly.

So I don't think it's valid to paint TV as the pantomime villain in the whole saga. Each of those players made a both a life decision and a commercial decision to move to QPR. They would have weighed up their own loyalty to Palace in doing that, and come to the conclusion that sticking with Bloye at Palace was career suicide - the same conclusion that TV obviously came to.

At that point, it would seem that TV is offering those players a lifeboat that they took. And if he was somewhat aggrieved with Bloye over certain issues at the time, an element of vengeance may have come into it too. Palace would indeed become collateral damage in such a situation, but I don't see that TV was doing anything outrageous or even unexpected.

As for the persistent rumours about "bungs", I can imagine that happened. Remember Harry Redknapp and George Graham also getting their fingers burnt on similar issues. This is not as easy to defend, but it does appear to have been pretty endemic among managers at the time, especially those who had a large degree of autonomy / control at their clubs and were working with weak chairmen. On this point I would like to agree with the poster that commented there was no comparison between TV and SC in terms of their dedication to Palace and the way they perceived themselves in relation to their employer. I would only add that Coppell is likely to be more the exception than the rule among football managers of that era.
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  #198  
Old 29-11-2023, 08:07 AM
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Blimey bubbs that was so frickin brilliant! Thank you so much! Almost brought a tear to my eye lol all seems just like the other day and really took me back.
Anyone else think JA is a dead ringer for young Jim Cannon? Just missing the tash with a similar demeanour.
So amazing to see Vince! My Palace hero.
There were good times with TV , the best and worst perhaps but memories I wouldn't swap for the world. Genuine thanks 😊
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  #199  
Old 29-11-2023, 09:33 AM
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Wow, what great footage. What a difference to the modern day changing rooms etc. Great to see Phil Holder chatting to Vince. 'Thighs like tree trunks' that man had!
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  #200  
Old 29-11-2023, 10:18 AM
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My penny's worth on this discussion.

Taking advantage of idiots is not a crime. Seems TV did that with both Bloye and Goldberg. As relates to those transfers to QPR, no players will sign for a new club unless they have trust in that manager, and I guess they conversely lost trust in Palace ownership in that time. There were some great insights from our more senior BBSers in this thread and I imagine they are generally accurate concerning what happened over those years, but the players at the time will have known even more and will have made their decisions correspondingly.

So I don't think it's valid to paint TV as the pantomime villain in the whole saga. Each of those players made a both a life decision and a commercial decision to move to QPR. They would have weighed up their own loyalty to Palace in doing that, and come to the conclusion that sticking with Bloye at Palace was career suicide - the same conclusion that TV obviously came to.

At that point, it would seem that TV is offering those players a lifeboat that they took. And if he was somewhat aggrieved with Bloye over certain issues at the time, an element of vengeance may have come into it too. Palace would indeed become collateral damage in such a situation, but I don't see that TV was doing anything outrageous or even unexpected.

As for the persistent rumours about "bungs", I can imagine that happened. Remember Harry Redknapp and George Graham also getting their fingers burnt on similar issues. This is not as easy to defend, but it does appear to have been pretty endemic among managers at the time, especially those who had a large degree of autonomy / control at their clubs and were working with weak chairmen. On this point I would like to agree with the poster that commented there was no comparison between TV and SC in terms of their dedication to Palace and the way they perceived themselves in relation to their employer. I would only add that Coppell is likely to be more the exception than the rule among football managers of that era.
Pretty spot on (from a senior bbs) . Had Bloye inexcusably NOT approached Howard Kendall El Tel and the players he took would have stayed. Those players , indeed all of us at the time were aligned to what Venables had achieved.
Venables will divide opinion. A great footballing man, a lovely approachable man but………as proved at Palace twice and at Spurs ( Sugar no mug) he’d have been more revered had he kept away from commercial activities
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