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  #161  
Old 12-05-2019, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Woosie View Post
He can play for Croatia or South Africa. Was expecting a senior call up with the latter but hasn't as yet. Joined from Brentford as an U18 when they scrapped their academy, and was very good at U18s. Has done well at U23s, but he's not 6 foot which can be an issue for a CB. Out of contract in the summer, has been offered a new deal.

Dreher has been at the club since he was 8, this was his third time on the bench (Man U away in 2016 as an U18, Boro away the following season). He played about six games for the U18s before rightly being promoted to the U21s as it was then. Captained them as a 17-year-old.

Was due for a debut in the FA Cup in the season we made the final but in doing so he was rushed back from injury which subsequently worsened his injury and contributed to being out for about 18 months through several other injuries.

When he picked up a (separate) ankle injury playing for the 23s in January I genuinely feared his career may be over before it had begun. Fortunately he's made a good recovery and despite the time out he's still kept his ability.

As with Bissaka, his talent was clear from the early days in the 18s. He won a penalty as a sub on his U18 debut at 15. I think with Dreher it was clearer that he was talented than Bissaka. It's a very difficult position to breakthrough into, and he obviously has Nya Kirby as competition, but I personally think he's better than Kirby.
Thanks for the info. I don't think we can read a great into 5 minutes against a tiring Bournemoth, so this is a lot more illuminating.

Do you know why training with the first team is preferred to a loan? Perhaps because of injuries etc and they want to ease him into regular football?
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  #162  
Old 12-05-2019, 09:30 PM
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He certainly looks like a ball playing midfielder. What are his strengths and weaknesses? Really liked what I saw against Valencia, it would be great to see more cameos like the one he made today.
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  #163  
Old 12-05-2019, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Glɑzier View Post
Thanks for the info. I don't think we can read a great into 5 minutes against a tiring Bournemoth, so this is a lot more illuminating.

Do you know why training with the first team is preferred to a loan? Perhaps because of injuries etc and they want to ease him into regular football?
No worries.

I'm not entirely sure why training with the first team is preferred to a loan but they did it with Bissaka, they're doing it with Tyrick Mitchell (although he is yet to train as regularly with the first team) and that is, I understand, the general policy for young players.

I think it's because the idea is that you get used to training with the best players you can, in a formation and set-up that is used by the first team, you're in that environment so you get used to being a 'first team' player, it beds you in. If you go out on loan there are a lot of variables that cannot be controlled, the quality of the training, the chances of actually playing, obviously the standard of football in matches that you do end up playing in (for Dreher, you're looking at League One at best if he goes out on loan).

Southampton (admittedly to varying degrees of success) were able to utilise this kind of thing really well, the likes of Sam Gallagher, Ryan Seager, James Ward-Prowse and others all debuted in the Premier League (several have now gone out on loan though) without any move away. Spurs prefer it as well.

My personal preference is that players should play senior football early on in their careers. There's little that Luke Dreher will learn from U23 football anymore, he's too good for it. But then, being with the first team will help him.

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He certainly looks like a ball playing midfielder. What are his strengths and weaknesses? Really liked what I saw against Valencia, it would be great to see more cameos like the one he made today.
His strengths are what you've seen today and against Fulham/Valencia. He's a ball-playing midfielder with good passing, awareness and vision. He doesn't tend to run with the ball, he tends to pass it. His weaknesses are probably less obvious, but I'd say his physique - not yet got the right build (but is 21 in November), and maybe defensively he's weaker than he is attacking but he's not a defensive minded midfielder.
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Last edited by Woosie; 12-05-2019 at 09:41 PM.
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  #164  
Old 12-05-2019, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Woosie View Post
No worries.

I'm not entirely sure why training with the first team is preferred to a loan but they did it with Bissaka, they're doing it with Tyrick Mitchell (although he is yet to train as regularly with the first team) and that is, I understand, the general policy for young players.

I think it's because the idea is that you get used to training with the best players you can, in a formation and set-up that is used by the first team, you're in that environment so you get used to being a 'first team' player, it beds you in. If you go out on loan there are a lot of variables that cannot be controlled, the quality of the training, the chances of actually playing, obviously the standard of football in matches that you do end up playing in (for Dreher, you're looking at League One at best if he goes out on loan).

Southampton (admittedly to varying degrees of success) were able to utilise this kind of thing really well, the likes of Sam Gallagher, Ryan Seager, James Ward-Prowse and others all debuted in the Premier League (several have now gone out on loan though) without any move away. Spurs prefer it as well.

My personal preference is that players should play senior football early on in their careers. There's little that Luke Dreher will learn from U23 football anymore, he's too good for it. But then, being with the first team will help him.



His strengths are what you've seen today and against Fulham/Valencia. He's a ball-playing midfielder with good passing, awareness and vision. He doesn't tend to run with the ball, he tends to pass it. His weaknesses are probably less obvious, but I'd say his physique - not yet got the right build (but is 21 in November), and maybe defensively he's weaker than he is attacking but he's not a defensive minded midfielder.
It does seem that loans to the Championship are much harder to get for players outside the top 6 such as Abraham, Mount etc.

Could it also be that players like Dreher get to a point, like you say, that they have nothing to benefit from technique wise etc from lower leagues and are fast tracked into the first team environment to sink or swim, and, like AWB, have the chance to grab the opportunity when it comes up?
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  #165  
Old 13-05-2019, 12:19 AM
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Thanks for the info Woosie, I feel that players from Palace who go out on loan to L1 or L2 never seem to rise above that level so for me it is a waste of time for building first team players for Palace. I am in favour of having players train with the first team and see if they are good enough.
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  #166  
Old 13-05-2019, 09:57 PM
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The fact he is almost 21 shows how long he has been out and how much football he has missed.

Like others I was really impressed with him in those pre-season games 2 years ago. Hopefully the time out hasn't hurt his development too much.
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  #167  
Old 13-05-2019, 10:19 PM
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For physical reasons, it must be just as hard for a young player to break into a lower league side and have a real impact.

Therefore, the opportunity for them to train with better players and for the club to be in control of what first team experience they gain through the cup competitions and travelling with the squad, probably makes it better in the long run for development
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  #168  
Old 13-05-2019, 11:05 PM
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|Couple of nice passes. Looked confident.
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  #169  
Old 14-05-2019, 08:10 AM
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It was a 100% pass rate on his 3 passes. He looked comfortable but impossible to judge him on it.

Always understood he has the ability on the ball, the challenge for him will be the defensive side of the game.

That was the case with Ben Watson too who was used regularly in the U21s at RB to try and improve his defensive ability when he was younger.
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  #170  
Old 15-07-2019, 11:49 AM
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Have hopes for Dreher this season. From the tiny amount I have seen of him, he looks like a midfield controller (with the ball not the boot) who could make it.
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  #171  
Old 15-07-2019, 12:36 PM
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Have hopes for Dreher this season. From the tiny amount I have seen of him, he looks like a midfield controller (with the ball not the boot) who could make it.
Now that AWB is gone, my biggest hope is to see continued development with Dreher. I also really liked what little we've seen of him at first team level.
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  #172  
Old 15-07-2019, 01:52 PM
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He played quite a lot of minutes in the Swiss friendlies, and looked quite assured if not spectacular. Likely to be good enough (imo) to be trusted as a squad player in midfield, ahead of Riedewald, and might save the club from signing some journeyman to replace Jimmy Mac gets phased out in the next couple of seasons.

Dreher seems to have enough presence and mobility to come on as a sub, if the manager decides to make one of course.
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Old 15-07-2019, 02:38 PM
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Didn't he stagnate ?
On the bench for Toulouse
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Old 15-07-2019, 03:31 PM
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He played quite a lot of minutes in the Swiss friendlies, and looked quite assured if not spectacular. Likely to be good enough (imo) to be trusted as a squad player in midfield, ahead of Riedewald, and might save the club from signing some journeyman to replace Jimmy Mac gets phased out in the next couple of seasons.

Dreher seems to have enough presence and mobility to come on as a sub, if the manager decides to make one of course.
I thought Riedewald looked decent on the ball on Saturday.
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Old 15-07-2019, 06:22 PM
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I thought Riedewald looked decent on the ball on Saturday.
What did you think on Tuesday out of interest? He played most of the match then.
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Old 15-07-2019, 07:50 PM
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What did you think on Tuesday out of interest? He played most of the match then.
I didn't see any of Tuesday's except the highlights.
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  #177  
Old 16-07-2019, 08:41 AM
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I'm not sure he will go out on loan next season. Think they will keep him training with the first team and being around the squad
He's one that appears - from the limited amount of game time I've seen, and I will go with your better judgment on these matters - to have a chance of actually making the bench and getting some game time in cup games and potentially the Premier League as a sub. A genuine squad player for us if he continues to do well pre-season. Hope so anyway
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Old 16-07-2019, 10:28 AM
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He's one that appears - from the limited amount of game time I've seen, and I will go with your better judgment on these matters - to have a chance of actually making the bench and getting some game time in cup games and potentially the Premier League as a sub. A genuine squad player for us if he continues to do well pre-season. Hope so anyway
I hope so, I think he would and the club would benefit from him pushing for a place with next season or the one after where he could become a regular. It does seem that the players we send out on loan either find their level or drop to the level of the league they are playing in.
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  #179  
Old 16-07-2019, 01:56 PM
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We should gradually include Luke in competitive matches but the biggest issue we face is Roy isn’t sub friendly. The odd 20 minutes here and there developing into longer is the ideal way to bed him into the team. Maybe his hand will be forced this year if we don’t bring reinforcements in. AWB thrived when Roy had to play him as we where down to the bare bones, I’m being optimistic but hopefully Luke can get an opportunity that he takes with both hands.
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  #180  
Old 17-07-2019, 07:05 AM
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I thought Riedewald looked decent on the ball on Saturday.
He was invisible yesterday
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