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General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum.

View Poll Results: How will VAR impact on your watching of Palace games?
It will make it less enjoyable 156 82.54%
It will have no real impact 21 11.11%
It will make it more enjoyable 14 7.41%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 189. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 26-06-2019, 10:14 PM
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I would be very surprised if it does not have a severely adverse effect on attending matches. This would appear to be the consensus on here and let's be honest, it's been laughable watching it from the comfort of your sofa in games that have no significance to us. No matter how positive a spin the pundits, refs and pros try to put on it, it doesn't work for the matchday fans and it certainly won't prevent "big team" bias. It has been suggested elsewhere that we should be chanting our disapproval (in our usual, polite manner) from minute 1 of game 1. If this were to take off at all grounds SKY, BT etc would have no alternative than to broadcast that message. To suggest that supporters have to accept VAR is nonsense. However if we timidly accept it, we'll only have ourselves to blame.
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  #62  
Old 27-06-2019, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by palacemetros View Post
...To suggest that supporters have to accept VAR is nonsense. However if we timidly accept it, we'll only have ourselves to blame.
we wont have to accept it if Palace get relegated
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  #63  
Old 27-06-2019, 01:38 AM
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I bet Wilf is dreading it as it will prove he is a diver!! ;-)

Is we dont sell Wilf I might have a sneak bet on Luca to get 15-20 goals next season

Last edited by palace_burger; 27-06-2019 at 03:01 PM.
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  #64  
Old 27-06-2019, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by GrayP41ace View Post
If they don't go for a referral system, then they need to give explicit instructions for when it can be used, clearly to everyone. Having 3/4/5 other referees sat in a TV booth observing 10 different replays at 15 different frame rates isn't refereeing a sport, it's micro managing it.

It's not there to check every decision the referee makes. Referees give decisions based on 100% belief that what they are giving, happened the way they saw it. They relay exactly what they saw and the decision they gave and then 1 other VAR referee then confirms what they saw or corrects the mistake. If the Ref has given a penalty and it's contentious, the ref call is upheld, I don't see the need to have VAR referees watch countless replays, only for them to say, "I'm not sure, maybe you should check again?", just put the decision and faith back on the ref and say "inconclusive, go with your first 'live' decision".

The, 'could go either way', '6 of one and half a dozen of the other' ones would be entirely different each and every time you view them.
I share these thoughts on VAR. It's a bit similar to 'Umpire's Call' in cricket. VAR should be there to rule out obvious errors. If it is not an obvious error and takes more than say 2-3 minutes to determine, the decision should stay with the onfield ref (i.e. what he originally gave).
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  #65  
Old 27-06-2019, 04:26 AM
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[QUOTE=Latvian;14802280].

I think it's become like hockey, with cheeky flicks onto players hands from point blank that are then given as penalties.

/QUOTE]

This is the rule change that worries me next season. Ball to hand being given as a penalty. Its going to be a joke seeing Eriksen or whoever dab a ball deliberately into a players hand/arm from point blank or 5 yards away and expecting a penalty or VAR referal.
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  #66  
Old 27-06-2019, 05:30 AM
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I bet Wilf is dreading it as it will prove he is a driver!! ;-)
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  #67  
Old 27-06-2019, 06:18 AM
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Yes for the fan in the stadium it's going to kill the ecstasy of scoring a goal because your going to hold yourself back each time. Final nail in footballs coffin for me. For me moments like Darren Powell's goal at Sunderland are my greatest. VAR maybe rightly would have taken that away. It's going to be toilet. All for tv viewers
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  #68  
Old 27-06-2019, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by PemboExpress View Post
I share these thoughts on VAR. It's a bit similar to 'Umpire's Call' in cricket. VAR should be there to rule out obvious errors. If it is not an obvious error and takes more than say 2-3 minutes to determine, the decision should stay with the onfield ref (i.e. what he originally gave).
Agree with this. Gnats cock calls should stay with the refs original decision.

As said before, each team should have one player instigated review per match keeping the review if successful.

Every decision should not be a VAR opportunity.

And with the new rules coming in. Players deliberately kicking a ball at a defenders arm in the penalty area a la mane at the end of last season should receive a yellow card at the minimum.

And if penalties are going to be under the microscope with keeper's being pulled for moving then they should look at encroachment at the same time.
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  #69  
Old 27-06-2019, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ee-ay-ee-ay-ee-ay-o View Post
But that's not the fault of VAR...it's the rules that need changing?

Nevertheless I'm against VAR.
We are gonna have to endure a season of this shit first.
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  #70  
Old 27-06-2019, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Dorking .Eagle View Post
7 minutes stoppage time first half, 8 minutes the second half has been quite common this World Cup.

It's bollocks.

It's supposed to be a leveller as referee bias towards big clubs will be taken away. But you can just imagine how many times the plucky underdog holding on to a one goal lead against a big club will lose that lead in the 8 minutes added on now
IMHO if it taakes that lon for a decision then there has been no obvious mistake made and a decision should stand. I suspect loads of goals from corners willbe chalked off as there is nearly always a foul involved. You just have to find it
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  #71  
Old 27-06-2019, 05:05 PM
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After seeing numerous VAR disasters at the Ladies World Cup I really think VAR must be suspended for another year.

It is nowhere near fit for purpose.

Often the decisions made by VAR actually conflict with the laws of the game, it is as though they have been re-written to suit VAR itself.

I am suspicious that their decisions favour the hosts and favourites in this tournament but it may just seem like that.
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  #72  
Old 29-06-2019, 12:08 AM
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Why a goal is disallowed or whatever needs to be reported to the crowd and tv audience. It's ridiculous that we're left in the dark.
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  #73  
Old 29-06-2019, 01:07 PM
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There seems to have been a slight softening in the use of VAR over the last few games of the Women's World Cup. Some handball decisions which would have almost certainly been awarded earlier have now been quite rightly interpreted as accidental.

Mike Riley stated that the Premier League would not use VAR to judge on encroachment or goalkeepers moving off the line at penalties next season but would rely on the on-field officials. Pierre Luigi Collina, head of refereeing for FIFA, however stated that the same rules must be applied across the whole of the game. This is clearly not valid as use of VAR technology will only apply to elite leagues and international tournaments. Also FIFA insist that they do not want the match officials to be undermined and games re-referred by a remote official with its useage restricted to clear and obvious errors.

Forensic analysis of the goalkeepers foot position at penalties should be left to the assistant who is probably in a better position, directly on the goalline to judge this encroachment. If they do not then correctly rule on the offence then it is the fault of FIFA's own training.

There needs to be some form of 'umpires call' as in cricket where the official makes a positive decision and the technology can only over-rule within defined parameters of accuracy. Indeed if they are to make such judgements down to pure millimetres then there also need clearly defined interpretation on when a ball is actually kicked. In law it is when the ball clearly moves, but this can also be quite subjective as to whether it is the moment of first contact or when there is a clear gap between the foot and the ball. No cameras are focused directly on the ball to make such a clear decision. similarly almost every penalty would have to be re-taken for encroachment by players of both sides as even standing on the line is technically encroachment as the line is part of the penalty area. Referees are currently instructed to only penalise players who are blatantly offending or are involved in any subsequent play if a goal ismissed.

This stricter interpretation of the laws should also be applied to timekeeping, especially with the time lost to VAR reviews. In the Scotland v Argentina game there was over 8 minutes between the initial foul for the penalty and the game restarting after all VAR reviews and the retaken penalty yet only 5 mins 9 secs was added as extra time. This included 6 substitutions and four other goals with subsequent VAR confirmation in the second half as well as other natural stoppages.


The Women's World Cup has been a problem because FIFA have implemented new interpretations of the laws along with VAR on games officiated by women who are seldom used to such high pressure games so are clearly influenced by the male official controlling VAR.
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  #74  
Old 30-06-2019, 09:34 AM
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Most goals won't be affected. Of course technology has to be used and offsides will be very quickly sorted out. There will be really tight decisions but that's life. Once VAR is sorted out it will be fine. Stupid changes to the handball rules are a different matter.
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  #75  
Old 30-06-2019, 10:05 AM
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Most goals won't be affected. Of course technology has to be used and offsides will be very quickly sorted out. There will be really tight decisions but that's life. Once VAR is sorted out it will be fine. Stupid changes to the handball rules are a different matter.
All goals are affected. Can you ever be certain there wasn't some marginal offside or foul in the build-up, even if the goal looks clear cut? There's really no point celebrating until the game has kicked off again because there's always that looming doubt that some berk in the VAR booth is going to justify his fee by spotting something six passes before the goal.

Likewise if there is a strong penalty appeal not given by the referee, any play after that is basically in a sort of limbo state while the VAR booth looks at the penalty decision. It might count, it might not. So even if you score a perfectly good goal immediately on the counter, it could still be brought back and you end up facing a penalty.

Last edited by WorthingEagle; 30-06-2019 at 10:08 AM.
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  #76  
Old 30-06-2019, 10:17 AM
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Where I believe VAR is likely to change the rules in the future is the offside rule. Before VAR was introduced, the benefit of the doubt went to the offensive player. A toe offside was likely to be given onside and the decision accepted by all. Now it is offside, very black and white when a goal results. I think this is going to impact the striker's return of goals next season. I also believe this is likely to also be to the detriment of the top teams, where officials under pressure gave marginal decisions in favour to the top teams.

The so-called pundits who use terms like 'he bought a penalty' will have to put there hands up when the penalty is upheld. Or worse when a player is booked for diving for a penalty, only for it to be rescinded there and then with a penalty awarded.

There is always going to be a debate, around the margins of the officials making a clear and obvious mistake. Especially around these new handball interpretations. I am sure the media will be producing a league table of the officials and the number of obvious mistakes made during the season.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:14 AM
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The so-called pundits who use terms like 'he bought a penalty' will have to put there hands up when the penalty is upheld. Or worse when a player is booked for diving for a penalty, only for it to be rescinded there and then with a penalty awarded.

There is always going to be a debate, around the margins of the officials making a clear and obvious mistake. Especially around these new handball interpretations. I am sure the media will be producing a league table of the officials and the number of obvious mistakes made during the season.
The decisions about simulation for penalties will be an interesting problem for referees next season. I would expect most to decide to not make a clear decision and instead rely on the VAR to make the judgement call. A ref who stops play and awards a dive against a player only for it to be overturned by VAR would be under enormous subsequent pressure by both sides.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:50 AM
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There is a lot of comment on what might or might not happen, a lot of comment on what has happened at the Womens World Cup. There doesn't seem to be much comment on its actual use in games we have seen.

Whilst i think there is huge room for improvement in the PL officials they are still so far ahead of the officials in the Women's World Cup you are basically looking at 2 different games!

Please correct me if i am wrong but we have VAR with a PL referee in 3 matches last year. In the Grimsby game the yellow card was increased to red (correctly) and VAR had no other impact. It was in use for the Tottenham game and i think the Watford game, both with Kevin Friend in the middle. I don't recall any VAR intervention or any delays to those games with spontaneous goal celebrations. The Grimsby game had 3 minutes of added time at the end of the 1st half (and 4 in the second).

Whilst i understand people being concerned I wonder if it is a lot of worry about nothing at this stage? I am more concerned about the changes made to the handball rule and its interpretation. Also that it is crazy to book a keeper for not having a foot on or above the goal line when a penalty is hit (i think that would be fine if you allowed them to start behind the goal line.)
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:00 PM
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If you need to start drawing lines on the pitch and reviewing it with the technology equivalent of a magnifying glass. For all intents and purposes the player is level and should be ruled as such. These decisions should remain the call of the linesman.

Handball rule is also being played about with stupidly and the replays don't clear it up in the slightest.
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by scro View Post
If you need to start drawing lines on the pitch and reviewing it with the technology equivalent of a magnifying glass. For all intents and purposes the player is level and should be ruled as such. These decisions should remain the call of the linesman.

Handball rule is also being played about with stupidly and the replays don't clear it up in the slightest.
Part of teh body in line is a bit like 'Umpire's Call' but then i have heard that some are trying to remove that from cricket too, either hitting or not hitting.
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