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  #21  
Old 28-06-2019, 05:28 AM
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Joel Ward. Spend the money in other areas (creativity & goals).

Don’t want Clyne.
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Old 28-06-2019, 06:30 AM
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We will get a replacement, no way will we risk ward being our only right back
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  #23  
Old 28-06-2019, 06:30 AM
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Joel, solid and dependable

Buy an upcoming replacement from a lower league to sit on the bench and ultimately take over as and when
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  #24  
Old 28-06-2019, 06:36 AM
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Didn't we originally sign Martin Kelly as a right back ? OK, I don't remember him being very good in that position and he seems better suited as a back up central defender, but he could be last resort cover for Ward ?
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Old 28-06-2019, 06:36 AM
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Felt sorry for Joel when AWB came in as he did nothing wrong, be great to have him back in the team.
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Old 28-06-2019, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUTHGATE EAGLE View Post
I'm hoping we don't buy an RB at all, unless we keep Wilf Zaha. I'll explain that strange statement;

When we chose to buy Benteke instead of an CAM and then brought Sakho, the combined cost and wages made it very hard to buy someone to help Wilf ( and, to a lesser degree, Andros ) in terms of creativity. We've been overwhelmingly dependent on Wilf since. He thankfully became such a creative force for us that he essentially did much of what a good winger, CAM and a good striker did, all in one. He created goals, won penalties, scored goals and often acted as a strike partner to Benteke.

The context to all this is that Wilf has carried most of the responsibilities of a winger, striker and CAM, with no one able to replace him adequately in ANY of those three roles. Assuming we do get in a good striker, to begin to replace Wilf will need at least TWO great buys in a winger and CAM. If we don't, I see our creativity dropping and a real struggle to stay up. Getting quality in just those two positions will probably require the kind of outlay that will eat up the Zaha money after the Wankers take their cut. In other words, we spend all the Wilf money replacing Wilf.

That leaves us still with a requirement to find a striker able to score and stay fit, a replacement for AWB and another CB. With us needing to balance books with the £45M we can expect from AWB and with any incoming player going to want way more wages than the £10K p/w AWB earned, don't be surprised if we have only £35M or so available for transfer fees. I don't think I'm being unreasonably negative with that figure.

Assuming that to be the case, we have circa £35M for a striker, CB and RB. The striker must happen. Say Mitrovic for £25M. We need a CB more than another RB, IMHO. Sakho, Tomkins and Dann are all injury concerns these days. Assuming a CB is our next priority, I think that's our transfer budget already blown, unless I'm both happy and relieved to be proven wrong and the club is able to raise much more for a RB, as well.

So I'm not sure we can or should pay for a replacement RB. We have Ward and Kelly able to play there. If Ward can do a job as a LB, couldn't PVA do one as a RB, with Schlupp playing LB if Ward got hurt? It seems to me we have adequate full back cover for both sides even if it's admittedly not great cover.

My point to all this is that we might do better not buying a RB at all, at least not until January. I think it's the lesser of the evils facing us, given we are probably about to lose the great majority of our creativity in a single player, have no reliable striker and some serious concerns in the heart of our defense.
Do you remember when we only had pape as our lb, ward is ok but will get found out over a full season, cb we're more than covered in.
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  #27  
Old 28-06-2019, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUTHGATE EAGLE View Post
I'm hoping we don't buy an RB at all, unless we keep Wilf Zaha. I'll explain that strange statement;

When we chose to buy Benteke instead of an CAM and then brought Sakho, the combined cost and wages made it very hard to buy someone to help Wilf ( and, to a lesser degree, Andros ) in terms of creativity. We've been overwhelmingly dependent on Wilf since. He thankfully became such a creative force for us that he essentially did much of what a good winger, CAM and a good striker did, all in one. He created goals, won penalties, scored goals and often acted as a strike partner to Benteke.

The context to all this is that Wilf has carried most of the responsibilities of a winger, striker and CAM, with no one able to replace him adequately in ANY of those three roles. Assuming we do get in a good striker, to begin to replace Wilf will need at least TWO great buys in a winger and CAM. If we don't, I see our creativity dropping and a real struggle to stay up. Getting quality in just those two positions will probably require the kind of outlay that will eat up the Zaha money after the Wankers take their cut. In other words, we spend all the Wilf money replacing Wilf.

That leaves us still with a requirement to find a striker able to score and stay fit, a replacement for AWB and another CB. With us needing to balance books with the £45M we can expect from AWB and with any incoming player going to want way more wages than the £10K p/w AWB earned, don't be surprised if we have only £35M or so available for transfer fees. I don't think I'm being unreasonably negative with that figure.

Assuming that to be the case, we have circa £35M for a striker, CB and RB. The striker must happen. Say Mitrovic for £25M. We need a CB more than another RB, IMHO. Sakho, Tomkins and Dann are all injury concerns these days. Assuming a CB is our next priority, I think that's our transfer budget already blown, unless I'm both happy and relieved to be proven wrong and the club is able to raise much more for a RB, as well.

So I'm not sure we can or should pay for a replacement RB. We have Ward and Kelly able to play there. If Ward can do a job as a LB, couldn't PVA do one as a RB, with Schlupp playing LB if Ward got hurt? It seems to me we have adequate full back cover for both sides even if it's admittedly not great cover.

My point to all this is that we might do better not buying a RB at all, at least not until January. I think it's the lesser of the evils facing us, given we are probably about to lose the great majority of our creativity in a single player, have no reliable striker and some serious concerns in the heart of our defense.
Good post. My only disagreement is in prioritising a CB over a replacement RB. Kelly is a CB and we have Sakho, Tomkins, Kelly and Dann for that position this year. In terms of natural RBs that just leaves Wardy.

I’d be putting next summer’s budget to addressing the issues at CB, but agreeing with you on the other holes to fill I’d be looking at spending no more than £10-12m on a RB, or looking at a loan. Bogle is an interesting one at only 18 years old and has shown a lot of promise, seems an attacking full-back as well so would be a good foil for Wardy. Might be gettable for that £12m + add-ons.
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  #28  
Old 28-06-2019, 07:11 AM
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Other clubs have found fullbacks, Robertson, Chilwell, Cresswell for from lower ranked teams with sell on potential and without breaking the bank on fees or wages!
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  #29  
Old 28-06-2019, 07:52 AM
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Many on here tend to forget Joel Ward is a very good solid defensive Right Back and that is his main forte, ok he is not that flying attacking overlapping Full back that many are wanting, but then was AWB that very different? Lets not forget many are critical of PVA for his inability to defend eventhough he is very good at attacking, yet want him replaced for that very reason.
There is no doubt we Must bring in another RB and ideally it should be someone young, but with experience capable of playing at a high level especially if he is to be First choice a tough ask to find for sure, and who that is is not so easy to find within our budget.
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Old 28-06-2019, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maiden Eagle View Post
Didn't we originally sign Martin Kelly as a right back ? OK, I don't remember him being very good in that position and he seems better suited as a back up central defender, but he could be last resort cover for Ward ?
Kelly is very poor in RB and for me and unless Ward rediscovers his form of 2/3 years ago is only a starting RB in a bottom 5 premier league team.

We definitely need to strengthen there. Someone who can play both RB and cover at LB as well wouldn’t be a bad shout.
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  #31  
Old 28-06-2019, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by sheepy View Post
Kelly is very poor in RB and for me and unless Ward rediscovers his form of 2/3 years ago is only a starting RB in a bottom 5 premier league team.

We definitely need to strengthen there. Someone who can play both RB and cover at LB as well wouldnít be a bad shout.
Joel was excellent when called upon last season, and no reason to think he cant continue at a decent level
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  #32  
Old 28-06-2019, 08:13 AM
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Joel was excellent when called upon last season, and no reason to think he cant continue at a decent level
I wouldn't say he is excellent, but he is an adequate RB, the fact remains that a few years ago we went into a season with only 1 LB, they got injured and our defence was shot, especially with a manager playing expansive football.

We need an additional RB, and Kelly is better and needed at CB at times. The question is whether we can find one this window that improves the 1st team. Wonder if we might get a loan in for a season to cover this gap with Aarons maybe available next year and Chelsea's ban meaning Reece James might be more available.
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Old 28-06-2019, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUTHGATE EAGLE View Post
I'm hoping we don't buy an RB at all, unless we keep Wilf Zaha. I'll explain that strange statement;

When we chose to buy Benteke instead of an CAM and then brought Sakho, the combined cost and wages made it very hard to buy someone to help Wilf ( and, to a lesser degree, Andros ) in terms of creativity. We've been overwhelmingly dependent on Wilf since. He thankfully became such a creative force for us that he essentially did much of what a good winger, CAM and a good striker did, all in one. He created goals, won penalties, scored goals and often acted as a strike partner to Benteke.

The context to all this is that Wilf has carried most of the responsibilities of a winger, striker and CAM, with no one able to replace him adequately in ANY of those three roles. Assuming we do get in a good striker, to begin to replace Wilf will need at least TWO great buys in a winger and CAM. If we don't, I see our creativity dropping and a real struggle to stay up. Getting quality in just those two positions will probably require the kind of outlay that will eat up the Zaha money after the Wankers take their cut. In other words, we spend all the Wilf money replacing Wilf.

That leaves us still with a requirement to find a striker able to score and stay fit, a replacement for AWB and another CB. With us needing to balance books with the £45M we can expect from AWB and with any incoming player going to want way more wages than the £10K p/w AWB earned, don't be surprised if we have only £35M or so available for transfer fees. I don't think I'm being unreasonably negative with that figure.

Assuming that to be the case, we have circa £35M for a striker, CB and RB. The striker must happen. Say Mitrovic for £25M. We need a CB more than another RB, IMHO. Sakho, Tomkins and Dann are all injury concerns these days. Assuming a CB is our next priority, I think that's our transfer budget already blown, unless I'm both happy and relieved to be proven wrong and the club is able to raise much more for a RB, as well.

So I'm not sure we can or should pay for a replacement RB. We have Ward and Kelly able to play there. If Ward can do a job as a LB, couldn't PVA do one as a RB, with Schlupp playing LB if Ward got hurt? It seems to me we have adequate full back cover for both sides even if it's admittedly not great cover.

My point to all this is that we might do better not buying a RB at all, at least not until January. I think it's the lesser of the evils facing us, given we are probably about to lose the great majority of our creativity in a single player, have no reliable striker and some serious concerns in the heart of our defense.
I donít think we need an additional centre back. I think a better strategy is to sell Dann and buy a younger promising centre back. A young CB and Kelly would offer good cover to Sakho and Tomkins. In emergencies we can use Kouyate there as well.
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  #34  
Old 28-06-2019, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
I wouldn't say he is excellent, but he is an adequate RB, the fact remains that a few years ago we went into a season with only 1 LB, they got injured and our defence was shot, especially with a manager playing expansive football.

We need an additional RB, and Kelly is better and needed at CB at times. The question is whether we can find one this window that improves the 1st team. Wonder if we might get a loan in for a season to cover this gap with Aarons maybe available next year and Chelsea's ban meaning Reece James might be more available.
I said he was excellent when called upon, which he was

Also I have said more than once that we need another right back, to sit on the bench, and be ready to step in for cup games or injury, and be good enough to replace Joel long term

Its unlikely we will unearth anyone as good as AWB so quickly, but there should be someone we can pick up from the Championship or league 1 who we can help develop and make into a 1st team player longer term
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Old 28-06-2019, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyTKid View Post
I donít think we need an additional centre back. I think a better strategy is to sell Dann and buy a younger promising centre back. A young CB and Kelly would offer good cover to Sakho and Tomkins. In emergencies we can use Kouyate there as well.
I think we were rumoured to be interested in some youngish cb from Santos for around £7m - the assumption was made that Dann may be offski this summer.
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Old 28-06-2019, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by BillyTKid View Post
I donít think we need an additional centre back. I think a better strategy is to sell Dann and buy a younger promising centre back. A young CB and Kelly would offer good cover to Sakho and Tomkins. In emergencies we can use Kouyate there as well.
You raise a good point about Kouyate. Maybe keeping Riedewald isn't a bad shout then. If we had a CB and midfield crisis then Reidewald could become important to us. It's a tough one. I know I don't want Clyne and his wage increases over AWB blowing another hole in the monies coming in from AWB / Wilf after Man Utd are finished with us. That cash won't go near as far as we think.
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Old 28-06-2019, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 917L View Post
Joel, solid and dependable

Buy an upcoming replacement from a lower league to sit on the bench and ultimately take over as and when
Am I mistaken in thinking that there is another young RB in the u-23 side (Boateng perhaps?) who is tipped to be one of the next youth products to have a chance at first team football with us?

If so, I'd be more than happy to have him as our RB understudy and focus on providing more creativity in the middle / out-wide.
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Old 28-06-2019, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by SOUTHGATE EAGLE View Post
You raise a good point about Kouyate. Maybe keeping Riedewald isn't a bad shout then. If we had a CB and midfield crisis then Reidewald could become important to us. It's a tough one. I know I don't want Clyne and his wage increases over AWB blowing another hole in the monies coming in from AWB / Wilf after Man Utd are finished with us. That cash won't go near as far as we think.
Kouyote is playing centre back (and captain)for Senegal in the African Cup.
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Old 28-06-2019, 09:46 AM
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Kouyote is playing centre back (and captain)for Senegal in the African Cup.
He also isn't good enough if we want to break the top 10.
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Old 28-06-2019, 09:47 AM
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weltklasse came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietweltklasse came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietweltklasse came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietweltklasse came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietweltklasse came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietweltklasse came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietweltklasse came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietweltklasse came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietweltklasse came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietweltklasse came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietweltklasse came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
put in a cheeky bid for Kevin Mbabu currently at Young Boys I think.
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