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  #1  
Old 08-07-2019, 09:16 AM
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Why do we never look to the future?

The signing of 31-year-old free agent Stephen Henderson following his release from Nottingham Forest this week got me thinking. Granted we needed to fill the #3 goalkeeper slot, but is there really no-one better, younger and on similar wages who we could bring in and develop over the next 2/3 years until Guaita/Henn move on?

We must've known for some time now that Jules was intending on leaving (or retiring given his age), so where is the planning?

It got me thinking about our long term vision, if we even have one. Over the past 2/3 years, Sorloth aside (who's been a disaster), who have we signed with a view to developing for the future? The only player I can think of is Jairo Riedewald, but let's be honest he was a FdB signing rather than a Dougie one and he's seemingly been disregarded already. Barring that I suppose you could include Meyer in there, but he was already relatively established.

I just look at the the likes of Bournemouth who have picked up players such as David Brooks, Chris Mepham and now Lloyd Kelly all for relatively small fees in today's market. All three (particularly Brooks) are now instantly worth a shedload more and could play in the PL for the next decade. Meanwhile we're re-signing injury prone mercenaries like Bakary Sako on ridiculous wages. I just don't see the logic.

Maybe I'm overreacting, but I just fear we're becoming another Stoke/WBA. All it could take is one bad season and we'd be stuck with a squad full of high earners who have absolutely no desire to play in the Championship. I just can't see our current 'strategy' being sustainable. There's only so long you can plug gaps before the whole thing falls apart.

Thoughts?

Last edited by Kirby; 08-07-2019 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:30 AM
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:42 AM
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That is an excellent article

I am an SP fan but that's not to say I wont call him out on his faults and I think the biggest issue in developing a process whereby we identify young players and act upon it is SP being a bit of a control freak and wanting to ultimately decide upon signings

This has worked up til now but we are running out of cash and also now managerial options (firefighting coaches, British, etc... unless you include Moyes or Hughes!)

We have an aging squad that should have enough about it to stay up even if Wilf goes but we will struggle in the following season unless there is succession planning, the like of which we haven't seen since CPFC 2010 took over almost a decade ago

The new stand is projected to add between 10-14m per season to the coffers but that is still relatively small change in todays world

We need a long term vision and plan, hopefully Dougie and Steve have developed this in the last 18 mths or so..
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:43 AM
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Well, the minute we introduced a bit of the future, AWB, he was gone, lured by the bright lights of Manchester (or rather the pound signs).

We do seem to have been linked with some younger players this window (and an experienced one or two which is fine). Whether that transpires to be the case, who knows, but it is certainly a step in the right direction hopefully.
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:44 AM
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Guiata - free - definitely a profit

Ward - 250k? - definitely a profit
PVA - 13 million - could go either way really
Sakho - 20m - as above, if we had interest now probably profit
Tomkins - 10m? - same as Sakho

Zaha - 6m - massive profit
Townsend 10m? - definite profit

Luka -10m??? - only reason we might not is contract
Schlupp - 12m? - difficult to say but possible loss
McArthur - 8m - would say profit although age?
Meyer - free - obviously profit

Benteke - 25m? - big loss.
Sorloth - 9m - at the moment loss but who knows

Just a few but clearly a shit article if it says only two players would make any profit!!!
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:47 AM
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Agree with most of that article, but not that Meyer and Zaha are the only players that couldn't be sold at a loss, even if that's through inflation of the market alone.

Tomkins, Townsend, Luka (if he signs a new deal), Guaita, Kelly and PVA are all probably worth more than we paid. Even Ward's got to be worth a million to a Championship club in today's market.

The OP is spot on, there doesn't seem to be much planning ahead. Let's face it, with a 71-year-old manager bad health could intervene at any moment, or he could just decide to sit by Lake Como like any normal person (I love my job but I certainly won't be doing it when I'm 71), rather than struggle to 40 points every year. What then?

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Old 08-07-2019, 09:48 AM
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The signing of 31-year-old free agent Stephen Henderson following his release from Nottingham Forest this week got me thinking. Granted we needed to fill the #3 goalkeeper slot, but is there really no-one better, younger and on similar wages who we could bring in and develop over the next 2/3 years until Guaita/Henn move on?

We must've known for some time now that Jules was intending on leaving (or retiring given his age), so where is the planning?

Thoughts?
Isn't that just what they tried to do with Lucas Perri?
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:56 AM
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Well, the minute we introduced a bit of the future, AWB, he was gone, lured by the bright lights of Manchester (or rather the pound signs).
That's a good thing though, surely?

1) It means they're playing bloody well for us
2) We pocket a load of cash to re-invest in more young players

It's a sustainable model.

We should be looking to spend the AWB cash on the likes of Konsa, Watkins, Adams (too late) etc. Even if they didn't live up to the hype we'd still make our money back. Look at Tyrone Mings as a prime example. Bournemouth signed him for 8m, he got a serious injury on his debut, barely played for the club again, went on loan to the Championship and now they're selling him to Villa for 26m.

We have a decent starting 11 but I'd love to see us back that up with some good young players. Konsa as back-up for Tomkins/Sakho, Watkins as back up for Wilf/Andros etc. Build something for the future.

Last edited by Kirby; 08-07-2019 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:01 AM
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Isn't that just what they tried to do with Lucas Perri?
Perhaps. What's actually happened with that one?

We seem keen on targeting the foreign market for young rough diamonds (Perri, Jach, Rakip etc.) but none of them are good enough/have stuck around for whatever reason.

I suppose that shows some sort of strategy, but it doesn't seem to be working in the slightest.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:11 AM
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Players we are linked with: Bolton Goalkeeper (Who did Dougie Manage?): Sign Henderson who was at Forest (Who did Dougie Manage?)

Our scouting is predictable
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:21 AM
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I have some faith in Dougie you know and am prepared to give him a chance, these DoF positions are all about building something long term and we are still very early in his tenure with it. Getting Guaita, Kouyate, Meyer and Ayew on loan for a total of 9.5m was shrewd business last summer whatever way you look at it, you cannot beat him up for not investing in youth with that kind of budget, needs must when there are squad gaps to fill and little money to do it with.

Now we have a bit more cash the likes of Castagne, Saint-Maximin and Morelos are all being linked, players that have performed at their clubs with a good age profile around 22/23. All can come straight in and contribute, are already hovering around the international scene and can be sold on for a profit in the future whilst approaching their prime. These are exactly the type of signings we should be making.

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Old 08-07-2019, 10:24 AM
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Thanks to the 'wonderful world' of amortisation we could make a profit on everyone with the exception of the last named on your list.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:30 AM
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I have some faith in Dougie you know and am prepared to give him a chance, these DoF positions are all about building something long term and we are still very early in his tenure with it. Getting Guaita, Kouyate, Meyer and Ayew on loan for a total of 9.5m was shrewd business last summer whatever way you look at it, you cannot beat him up for not investing in youth with that kind of budget, needs must when there are squad gaps to fill and little money to do it with.

Now we have a bit more cash the likes of Castagne, Saint-Maximin and Morelos are all being linked, players that have performed at their clubs with a good age profile around 22/23. All can come straight in and contribute, are already hovering around the international scene and can be sold on for a profit in the future whilst approaching their prime. These are exactly the type of signings we should be making.
While you make a good point regarding Guaita, Kouyate, Meyer and Ayew I just don't feel comfortable when we're linked with players like Saint-Maximin for large fees. If they flop (which is quite often the case with expensive unproven foreigners from inferior leagues) you'll almost certainly make a loss. At least when you sign a young English player they're already accustomed to the British game and if they flop you'll probably still get your money back down the line.

I'd rather we went down the Bournemouth route of signing and developing promising British talent personally, although I have to confess I do like the sound of this Castagne bloke.

As for Morelos - God no.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:32 AM
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That's a good thing though, surely?

1) It means they're playing bloody well for us
2) We pocket a load of cash to re-invest in more young players

It's a sustainable model.

......
I am sure it is sustainable. I just don't think it is a good thing to lose players after a year, whilst understanding the business logic. As a fan, what's the point in young players having a season then going, merely to provide the money to buy another young player, who if successful, moves on. Etc etc etc.

I actually like to see players in the Palace shirt for a few years. It builds something; rapport, familiarity, stories, a connection.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:39 AM
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I am sure it is sustainable. I just don't think it is a good thing to lose players after a year, whilst understanding the business logic. As a fan, what's the point in young players having a season then going, merely to provide the money to buy another young player, who if successful, moves on. Etc etc etc.

I actually like to see players in the Palace shirt for a few years. It builds something; rapport, familiarity, stories, a connection.
I suppose the thought process is that once you've sold one for a big fee you can keep hold of the others for a few years. You don't necessarily have to flog every one.

When you look at some of the British-bred players Bournemouth have recruited and how much they're worth now they've done bloody well. Callum Wilson's been linked with a 40-50m move despite being signed for peanuts, same with Ryan Fraser, people raised eyebrows when they signed Nathan Ake for 20m but he's now worth at least double that. Mings, Brooks etc. etc. etc...

They're all still there but if they ever want to sell they know they're going to rake it in.

I look at our squad and it's only Wilf who's worth anything near that. We have an ageing team and seemingly nothing coming up underneath.

Plus, I don't know about you, but I get much more of a kick from seeing young, hungry players in a Palace shirt than the grossly overpaid likes of Benteke and Sako.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:46 AM
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The signing of 31-year-old free agent Stephen Henderson following his release from Nottingham Forest this week got me thinking. Granted we needed to fill the #3 goalkeeper slot, but is there really no-one better, younger and on similar wages who we could bring in and develop over the next 2/3 years until Guaita/Henn move on?

We must've known for some time now that Jules was intending on leaving (or retiring given his age), so where is the planning?

It got me thinking about our long term vision, if we even have one. Over the past 2/3 years, Sorloth aside (who's been a disaster), who have we signed with a view to developing for the future? The only player I can think of his Jairo Riedewald, but let's be honest he was a FdB signing rather than a Dougie one and he's seemingly been disregarded already. Barring that I suppose you could include Meyer in there, but he was already relatively established.

I just look at the the likes of Bournemouth who have picked up players such as David Brooks, Chris Mepham and now Lloyd Kelly all for relatively small fees in today's market. All three (particularly Brooks) are now instantly worth a shedload more and could play in the PL for the next decade. Meanwhile we're re-signing injury prone mercenaries like Bakary Sako on ridiculous wages. I just don't see the logic.

Maybe I'm overreacting, but I just fear we're becoming another Stoke/WBA. All it could take is one bad season and we'd be stuck with a squad full of high earners who have absolutely no desire to play in the Championship. I just can't see our current 'strategy' being sustainable. There's only so long you can plug gaps before the whole thing falls apart.

Thoughts?
I can see the logic of buying a low cost, aging keeper in a position where he will likely never play but I agree with your overall point. I've cited clubs like Sunderland, Stoke and WBA as teams we might end up emulating in rarely building for the future and, instead, reacting to short term problems with short term solutions in the form of players able to do a job but never able to take us forward as a club. A great example is our interest in an aging Clyne, for a high fee and high wages, when we already have an aging defense and no 'spark' in the team outside of a player who we are perennially hanging onto with our fingernails. Where's the 'future-proofing' in that?

I've complained about our culture here since we came up ( mainly in our dismissal of the importance of creative players in midfield ) and this is just another example. Bigger clubs than us have gone down because of it. After seven years in the premiership, we should have put together a squad where some significant signs of look-forward investment can be found and where a single player isn't the difference between being relegation-threatened and being comfortable.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:50 AM
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While you make a good point regarding Guaita, Kouyate, Meyer and Ayew I just don't feel comfortable when we're linked with players like Saint-Maximin for large fees. If they flop (which is quite often the case with expensive unproven foreigners from inferior leagues) you'll almost certainly make a loss. At least when you sign a young English player they're already accustomed to the British game and if they flop you'll probably still get your money back down the line.

I'd rather we went down the Bournemouth route of signing and developing promising British talent personally, although I have to confess I do like the sound of this Castagne bloke.

As for Morelos - God no.
To be honest I was surprised we weren't in for Che Adams, don't seem to be in the mix for Bowen (etc.) too. Perhaps the thinking is that the likes of ASM are just a little further along in their development to come in and contribute straight away, certainly over the likes of Watkins who didn't pull up trees during the second half of last season.

Bournemouth also have their share of duds to be fair, Mepham has looked awful every time I've watched them play and Ibe has been an awful signing.

The obvious answer is not to stick rigidly to foreign or domestic players, we should be signing the players that make the most sense for our circumstances at the time.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipp Ahoy! View Post
Guiata - free - definitely a profit

Ward - 250k? - definitely a profit
PVA - 13 million - could go either way really
Sakho - 20m - as above, if we had interest now probably profit
Tomkins - 10m? - same as Sakho

Zaha - 6m - massive profit
Townsend 10m? - definite profit

Luka -10m??? - only reason we might not is contract
Schlupp - 12m? - difficult to say but possible loss
McArthur - 8m - would say profit although age?
Meyer - free - obviously profit

Benteke - 25m? - big loss.
Sorloth - 9m - at the moment loss but who knows

Just a few but clearly a shit article if it says only two players would make any profit!!!
Problem is that that is our entire squad pretty much, if we go down we are left with Hennessey, Schlupp, Ward, Mcarthur and Sorloth. Despite making a good case with the list I am also worried we have no clear long term vision for where we are going in the transfer market, we need to start signing some younger players.
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  #19  
Old 08-07-2019, 10:57 AM
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MFBias MFBias is offline
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We have signed a 3rd Choice keeper for a season who probably never play. People need to chill out. It’s only because there hasn’t been any other signings.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:01 AM
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MAW : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineMAW : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineMAW : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineMAW : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineMAW : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineMAW : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineMAW : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineMAW : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineMAW : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineMAW : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineMAW : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mine
Yes, Henderson is relatively cheap insurance for the season.
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