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General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum.

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  #81  
Old 17-05-2019, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by PHIL BARBER View Post
8 years on Roy, and let us not forget AWB was by mistake not by design. Same RH who overlook Wilf for England.

We need a coach that will unearth talent and give youth a chance.
It was a mistake that Roy told AWB not to go on loan and to be around the first team? Right-oh then.

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  #82  
Old 17-05-2019, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by brighton_eagle View Post
Apart from the fact he's had a massive influence on Pep's style and tactical approach.
Guardiola has managed Barcelona, Bayern and Manchester City. Feck me, I think I could win something in charge of those teams!

All this fawning over Guardiola does my head in. I'm sure he's decent at managing all the egos but I wonder how he'd get on with a lower table squad and no money to spend (relatively). Probably do about as well as Bielsa has done at Leeds which is, what exactly?
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  #83  
Old 17-05-2019, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by eddieskyclad View Post
Leeds were hoping to avoid a relegation scrap at the start of the season... he's done extraordinary at Leeds.
Threw away promotion and bottled the play offs. Extraordinary indeed.
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  #84  
Old 17-05-2019, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by eddieskyclad View Post
Leeds were hoping to avoid a relegation scrap at the start of the season... he's done extraordinary at Leeds.
Is the right answer
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  #85  
Old 17-05-2019, 04:33 PM
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I doubt they'd have brought in Bielsa if their hope was to avoid a relegation scrap. He failed, simple as that.
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  #86  
Old 17-05-2019, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SA Eagle View Post
I doubt they'd have brought in Bielsa if their hope was to avoid a relegation scrap. He failed, simple as that.
I dont think that is really the case, despite using the same words a(more as a retort) and a number of posts pointing out some issues with him.

Having observed a session myself (invited not spying...) and just speaking to some of the coaching staff etc. He has really changed the mindset as well as some practical issues around the structure of training, playing systems and so on. Whether he could improve on that if he stayed or if that would stay in place if he did go, I have doubts. Not sure it is failure per se, if this is an indication of progress .

Anyway, as pointed out, he doesn't hang around enough normally to find out
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  #87  
Old 17-05-2019, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by palacemetros View Post
Guardiola has managed Barcelona, Bayern and Manchester City. Feck me, I think I could win something in charge of those teams!

All this fawning over Guardiola does my head in. I'm sure he's decent at managing all the egos but I wonder how he'd get on with a lower table squad and no money to spend (relatively). Probably do about as well as Bielsa has done at Leeds which is, what exactly?
Like when he won the 4th tier in Spain?
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  #88  
Old 17-05-2019, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by PHIL BARBER View Post
8 years on Roy, and let us not forget AWB was by mistake not by design. Same RH who overlook Wilf for England.

We need a coach that will unearth talent and give youth a chance.
Bollocks. AWB may not have come into the team as soon bar injuries but he was already including him in 1st team training and has handled his development very well.
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  #89  
Old 17-05-2019, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
Like when he won the 4th tier in Spain?
Mmm, not a real comparison is it? He won that with Barcelona's B team which included the likes of Busquets and Pedro and where he merged the B & C teams. So he had talent at his disposal and a big squad to chose from.

I'm not saying he's a poor manager but neither can I say that he is the best. His record cannot be disputed but he's managed the best teams on the planet. How different is that from what Roy achieved with Malmo?
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  #90  
Old 17-05-2019, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by palacemetros View Post
Guardiola has managed Barcelona, Bayern and Manchester City. Feck me, I think I could win something in charge of those teams!

All this fawning over Guardiola does my head in. I'm sure he's decent at managing all the egos but I wonder how he'd get on with a lower table squad and no money to spend (relatively). Probably do about as well as Bielsa has done at Leeds which is, what exactly?
He doesn’t just ‘win something’ though does he. That’s a ridiculous oversimplification, and implies that there’s nothing between Guardiola and say, what Manuel Pellegrini did at Man City. He takes good teams, and in the case of Barca and Man City, turns them into the best teams their respective countries have ever seen.

07-08, a declining Barca side finished 3rd, 20 odd points behind Real Madrid and 10 or so off Villarreal. Guardiola comes in, sells their big stars in Ronaldinho and Deco, promotes players from their academy, and wins the treble in his first season. The rest is history, he turned Barca into arguably the greatest club side of all time, or at least the greatest of the modern era, and made Messi into what some consider the greatest player of all time. And despite Spain’s prior Euro 2008 victory, he provided a playing philosophy which would carry them through to victories at the 2010 World Cup and 2012 euros.

Man City shouldn’t need much explanation as we all know about them. Won two titles in not particularly convincing fashion, taking until the last day to beat a vastly less talented Man United to the title, and right to the wire against a Liverpool side who only had about 5 good players, all in attack, with no defence or midfield. They’d always been outspending teams, but hadn’t ever been dominant. Pep comes in, and turns them into the best team the premier league has ever seen, and one of English footballs best.

You have your big club managers who go in and win a trophy or two, your Ancelotti’s, your Van Gaal’s, your Mourinho's etc. But how many manage to build incredible dynasties like Pep does? That’s why he gets adulation, he’s the best in the category of big club managers.

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  #91  
Old 17-05-2019, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by PHIL BARBER View Post
8 years on Roy, and let us not forget AWB was by mistake not by design. Same RH who overlook Wilf for England.

We need a coach that will unearth talent and give youth a chance.
Why are you still here???
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  #92  
Old 17-05-2019, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
He doesn’t just ‘win something’ though does he. That’s a ridiculous oversimplification, and implies that there’s nothing between Guardiola and say, what Manuel Pellegrini did at Man City. He takes good teams, and in the case of Barca and Man City, turns them into the best teams their respective countries have ever seen.

07-08, a declining Barca side finished 3rd, 20 odd points behind Real Madrid and 10 or so off Villarreal. Guardiola comes in, sells their big stars in Ronaldinho and Deco, promotes players from their academy, and wins the treble in his first season. The rest is history, he turned Barca into arguably the greatest club side of all time, or at least the greatest of the modern era, and made Messi into what some consider the greatest player of all time. And despite Spain’s prior Euro 2008 victory, he provided a playing philosophy which would carry them through to victories at the 2010 World Cup and 2012 euros.

Man City shouldn’t need much explanation as we all know about them. Won two titles in not particularly convincing fashion, taking until the last day to beat a vastly less talented Man United to the title, and right to the wire against a Liverpool side who only had about 5 good players, all in attack, with no defence or midfield. They’d always been outspending teams, but hadn’t ever been dominant. Pep comes in, and turns them into the best team the premier league has ever seen, and one of English footballs best.

You have your big club managers who go in and win a trophy or two, your Ancelotti’s, your Van Gaal’s, your Mourinho's etc. But how many manage to build incredible dynasties like Pep does? That’s why he gets adulation, he’s the best in the category of big club managers.
I have to come back on this. Guardiola benefitted from a wealth of talent coming through the Barcelona youth system at that time and had a net spend of 120 million euros in his first two seasons. I'm sure Del Bosque might feel a bit peeved to know that all his success with the national side was down to the manager at Barcelona! He did the same at Man City with a two year net spend of £364 million. It's widely believed that such is the strength in depth at the Etihad that they could field a 2nd team in the premier league which would comfortably finish in the top six.

Now ask him to take a club like Palace with a pretty dismal youth set up and around £50 million to spend over two years, with a hugely reduced wage budget and I honestly don't think he'd be able to achieve any more than Hodgson has done. There are quite a few decent managers about and he falls into that category, as does ours.
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  #93  
Old 17-05-2019, 10:16 PM
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I’d be gutted if he went Brighton. Exactly what they are looking for. Please stay at Leeds!
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Old 17-05-2019, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by palacemetros View Post
I have to come back on this. Guardiola benefitted from a wealth of talent coming through the Barcelona youth system at that time and had a net spend of 120 million euros in his first two seasons. I'm sure Del Bosque might feel a bit peeved to know that all his success with the national side was down to the manager at Barcelona! He did the same at Man City with a two year net spend of £364 million. It's widely believed that such is the strength in depth at the Etihad that they could field a 2nd team in the premier league which would comfortably finish in the top six.

Now ask him to take a club like Palace with a pretty dismal youth set up and around £50 million to spend over two years, with a hugely reduced wage budget and I honestly don't think he'd be able to achieve any more than Hodgson has done. There are quite a few decent managers about and he falls into that category, as does ours.
It’s a great argument but we will never know. He did have 150 million to spend on fullbacks which are key to his philosophy. Frank De Boer didn’t really get that did he. Pep is top manager but agreed he has taken his jobs wisely.
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  #95  
Old 17-05-2019, 10:26 PM
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I’d be gutted if he went Brighton. Exactly what they are looking for. Please stay at Leeds!
Oh yes please. Can you imagine that Br*ghton squad playing a high pressing game? They'd be ripped to shreds!
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Old 17-05-2019, 10:33 PM
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Oh yes please. Can you imagine that Br*ghton squad playing a high pressing game? They'd be ripped to shreds!
And with any luck he'd bring Bumfluff with him.
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Old 17-05-2019, 10:43 PM
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Oh yes please. Can you imagine that Br*ghton squad playing a high pressing game? They'd be ripped to shreds!
Agreed and a lot harder in premier league again you have to invest heavily ( right players). They must be close ish to the ffp limits.
Anyway looks like Graham Tin pots in hopefully. Similar style not gona be easy.
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  #98  
Old 17-05-2019, 10:57 PM
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I have to come back on this. Guardiola benefitted from a wealth of talent coming through the Barcelona youth system at that time and had a net spend of 120 million euros in his first two seasons. I'm sure Del Bosque might feel a bit peeved to know that all his success with the national side was down to the manager at Barcelona! He did the same at Man City with a two year net spend of £364 million. It's widely believed that such is the strength in depth at the Etihad that they could field a 2nd team in the premier league which would comfortably finish in the top six.

Now ask him to take a club like Palace with a pretty dismal youth set up and around £50 million to spend over two years, with a hugely reduced wage budget and I honestly don't think he'd be able to achieve any more than Hodgson has done. There are quite a few decent managers about and he falls into that category, as does ours.
Where did I say anything about Palace? I repeatedly emphasized the term ‘big club managers,’ because that’s what Pep is, and explained why, in your words, people ‘fawn’ over him. Because he’s pretty unique amongst the top level managers these days.

EVERYONE benefits from money and talent at big clubs. But next to no one builds dynasties like Guardiola. That’s why people bang on about him.
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Old 17-05-2019, 11:04 PM
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I'm sure Del Bosque might feel a bit peeved to know that all his success with the national side was down to the manager at Barcelona! .
Nope, I think Del Bosque knows it himself. Experienced, safe pair of hands and a great coach in his own right, but the victorious Spanish sides in 2010 and 12 were essentially Barcelona and friends, playing Guardiola football.
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Old 17-05-2019, 11:09 PM
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Where did I say anything about Palace? I repeatedly emphasized the term ‘big club managers,’ because that’s what Pep is, and explained why, in your words, people ‘fawn’ over him. Because he’s pretty unique amongst the top level managers these days.

EVERYONE benefits from money and talent at big clubs. But next to no one builds dynasties like Guardiola. That’s why people bang on about him.
Dynastie is big word yes he’s won the league twice in row and he gets all players built into the way he wants to play. He is definitely 1 of the best. Also looking at all his signings he doesn’t get everything right so amazing man manager. And people’s person which is key in this day an age.

But... you cannot deny the money he has spent is unreal 1 billion, in his career.
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