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  #29961  
Old 16-05-2017, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
don't you think if we were important enough for the EU to contemplate this that they might have already suggested that?
I think you miss my point - I've no doubt the EU would reject any British "change or we leave" ultimatum but citizens of the EU would respect the fact that we tried to get the reforms that are so desperately needed.

As it stands they think we are ignorantly sticking up two fingers to them
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  #29962  
Old 16-05-2017, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Langers View Post
I think you miss my point - I've no doubt the EU would reject any British "change or we leave" ultimatum but citizens of the EU would respect the fact that we tried to get the reforms that are so desperately needed.
We already asked for a deal. We got a deal. The electorate then rejected that deal.

We've also already given notification under article 50. So a little late, no?
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  #29963  
Old 16-05-2017, 07:32 PM
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And yet if you read the Evening Standard article, the map shows only 3-4 boroughs with a reduction, from a v high average house price.

More of the boroughs show an annual increase, including some at +12%. Croydon is listed as +7%.

It shows a mixed bag, with the burbs still rising, despite the uncertainty of Brexit and now an election.
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  #29964  
Old 16-05-2017, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
And yet if you read the Evening Standard article, the map shows only 3-4 boroughs with a reduction, from a v high average house price.

More of the boroughs show an annual increase, including some at +12%. Croydon is listed as +7%.

It shows a mixed bag, with the burbs still rising, despite the uncertainty of Brexit and now an election.
This is the beginning of the much needed falls . Brexit .. Higher Inflation... Lower earnings... and Interest rates can't go any lower to prop prices up

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  #29965  
Old 16-05-2017, 07:48 PM
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[QUOTE=racehorse-80s;13633398] Higher Inflation... Lower earnings... and Interest rates can't go any lower to prop prices up

And perhaps because of higher inflation and lower earnings no one will be able to buy at these marginally reduced prices anyway?
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  #29966  
Old 16-05-2017, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
We already asked for a deal. We got a deal. The electorate then rejected that deal.

We've also already given notification under article 50. So a little late, no?
I agree - it is all water under the bridge - but unfortunately for all Europeans it is a missed opportunity in my book and like any divorce, will leave us all poorer.

Instead of giving Europe a vision of how it should reform, May is looking to appease the ring wing of her party. The EU needs reform and we could have played a smarter game.
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  #29967  
Old 16-05-2017, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Langers View Post
I agree - it is all water under the bridge - but unfortunately for all Europeans it is a missed opportunity in my book and like any divorce, will leave us all poorer.

Instead of giving Europe a vision of how it should reform, May is looking to appease the ring wing of her party. The EU needs reform and we could have played a smarter game.
So you are saying we shouldn't do what you were proposing we should do a few posts back?

Or am I missing something?
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  #29968  
Old 16-05-2017, 07:52 PM
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If they tried to reform the EU to help low paid workers in Western Europe the governments of Eastern Europe would veto it. They blocked the French request to change the Posted Workers Directive.
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  #29969  
Old 16-05-2017, 11:11 PM
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[QUOTE=fang;13633413]
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Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
Higher Inflation... Lower earnings... and Interest rates can't go any lower to prop prices up

And perhaps because of higher inflation and lower earnings no one will be able to buy at these marginally reduced prices anyway?
That's why prices are unsustainable and falling , Until they fall further the buyers will stay away , The current shortage of property for sale is the only thing pinning up prices .
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  #29970  
Old 17-05-2017, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
Citizens rights yes, but why not help protect jobs as well? EU nationals in the UK have an above average likelihood to be working for agencies and on zero hours contracts and we all know those groups will be amongst the first to lose their employment in a downturn. I know of agency staff whose remittences to Bulgaria and Romania are very badly needed. So yes, protect their rights in the Uk but the gold plated officials and politicians throughout Europe should also be looking to protect employment oportunities. A hard line on Britain for political objectives won't achieve that.
There isn't a hard line on Britain for political objectives. Tabloid fantasy
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  #29971  
Old 17-05-2017, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
We already asked for a deal. We got a deal.
No we didn''t, what we got was a last minute panic by Cameron trying to fulfill his foolish manifesto promise. His deal in no way matched what people were actually concerned about. If he in particular, had not pandered to his eurosceptics in his own party, and kippers outside, he could have built far better relationships with his peers in Brussels. But no, he remained aloof and at arms length and was justifiably mainly shunned by them over the years, and as a consequence any deal attempt especially under those circumstances was always going to fail.
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  #29972  
Old 17-05-2017, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
This is the beginning of the much needed falls . Brexit .. Higher Inflation... Lower earnings... and Interest rates can't go any lower to prop prices up

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....and when homeowners get evicted, and the lenders take back control of their family homes and sell them off cheap to rich Tory landlords for high rents, you no doubt, will be a much happier guy.
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  #29973  
Old 17-05-2017, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Langers View Post
I agree - it is all water under the bridge - but unfortunately for all Europeans it is a missed opportunity in my book and like any divorce, will leave us all poorer.

Instead of giving Europe a vision of how it should reform, May is looking to appease the ring wing of her party. The EU needs reform and we could have played a smarter game.
If May is looking to please the right wing of her party, great because she is also pleasing a lot of left and centre wing labour supporters who want out and have done since the 1970's.

It would have been nice if Cameron had been serious about getting reforms but he was less than half hearted. The fact that the Brussels technocrats were not in the slightest bit interested in reform highlights the problem with the EU and why we should leave the EU in its current form. It looks like the EU still has problems other than the UK. Growing unease in the old Communist block countries and while Macron won in France and Holland just about rejected the anti EU surge, its not going to go away anytime soon. Greece and Italy are the next fronts they have to fight on.

However their biggest fear is the UK achieves a positive result after exit, others will want to follow. I think the EU will be vastly different in 10 years, but they will not reform by choice, it will be forced upon them by millions of people wanting change
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  #29974  
Old 17-05-2017, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by chelmsfordeagle View Post
regarding the countries and their slave trades; worse, better , about the same, worse.

regarding imperialism, you could say that being more efficient made it worse.

It is not being anti-British it taking a more independent, well rounded view of history rather than relying on a version used by Imperial Britain to say why Britain was/is so great. When did so many people become unable to accept valid criticism?

As for the link to brexit. Anyone that used the phrase 'make Britain great again' should one, be punched in the face (very hard) and two, get a better understanding of how Britain became 'great'. The leave campaign used British Imperialism and the myths around it as a template for leave. Brexit and Imperialism are most definitely linked.
I think you'll find Britain was the first to outlaw the slave trade and then the navy actively tried to stop others doing it in Africa. Do I give a shyte, no, its 200yrs ago and nothing to do with me, if you feel the need to self flagellate over it feel free but don't expect anyone else to feel responsible or even apologetic.

Imperialism, so what a thing of the past stop hang wringing and get over it.

Brexit and imperialism may be linked in a fuddled mind but the issues are of the here and now.
Who makes the laws, Cash subsidies and immigration.

Hope this helps.
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  #29975  
Old 17-05-2017, 08:05 AM
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[QUOTE=racehorse-80s;13633765]
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Originally Posted by fang View Post

That's why prices are unsustainable and falling , Until they fall further the buyers will stay away , The current shortage of property for sale is the only thing pinning up prices .
Property prices would have to halve before those who are suffering from the affects of stagnant earnings and inflation could even think about buying a home. The two problems with that scenario is that if things got that bad, they probably wouldn't have a job and no one would be selling houses in that market anyway.
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  #29976  
Old 17-05-2017, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Langers View Post
Why can't we use the Brexit vote as leverage for EU reform?

Reform and we will stay - don't reform and we leave.

Seems bloody obvious to me.
Hopefully it may happen, I'm absolutely certain some agreement on FoM would flip it the other way.
Can't see it happening though.
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  #29977  
Old 17-05-2017, 08:07 AM
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Include some loquats, tiger tomatoes, emperadors and peaches amarillos please.
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  #29978  
Old 17-05-2017, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
After having untold years of the fastest rising prices.
I thought you were benefiting from that.
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  #29979  
Old 17-05-2017, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
No we didn''t, what we got was a last minute panic by Cameron trying to fulfill his foolish manifesto promise. His deal in no way matched what people were actually concerned about. If he in particular, had not pandered to his eurosceptics in his own party, and kippers outside, he could have built far better relationships with his peers in Brussels. But no, he remained aloof and at arms length and was justifiably mainly shunned by them over the years, and as a consequence any deal attempt especially under those circumstances was always going to fail.

I spoke to an ambassador of a European country in the UAE who had an interesting observation. He’d worked around the world including Brussels. He said everywhere that he’d worked, except Brussels, the UK was great at diplomacy. British Ambassadors and Ministers knew how to deal with their counterparts, had a strategy and really punched above their weight. But when it came to dealing with the EU the British diplomatic effort was a total failure. It consisted of public posturing, poor preparation for meetings and making lots of demands and ultimatums rather than looking for compromise. This will be the story of Brexit just as it was the story of Cameron’s “renegotiation”.
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  #29980  
Old 17-05-2017, 08:20 AM
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I think you'll find Britain was the first to outlaw the slave trade and then the navy actively tried to stop others doing it in Africa. Do I give a shyte, no, its 200yrs ago and nothing to do with me, if you feel the need to self flagellate over it feel free but don't expect anyone else to feel responsible or even apologetic.

Imperialism, so what a thing of the past stop hang wringing and get over it.

Brexit and imperialism may be linked in a fuddled mind but the issues are of the here and now.
Who makes the laws, Cash subsidies and immigration.

Hope this helps.
This is not true, as well as being very different from ending slavery. The Navy's later role in stopping the slave trade was because Britain was able to use the resources of India to maintain low prices giving them a massive advantage over other European nations. The Navy's role was economic, not humanitarian.

If an honest reprisal of history is self flagellation for you, so be it. Not that you give a shyte. You have shown repetitively that you couldn't give a shit about poor people of today, why would you care about anything that happened years ago.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by chelmsfordeagle; 17-05-2017 at 08:22 AM.
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