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  #201  
Old 07-08-2008, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by red&blue_moomin
This is nothing like Routledge or Gray and if you can't see it or understand this then frankly your opinion is adding nothing to this debate as you plainly are trotting out the standard tripe when an 'important' player leaves a club without engaging your brain.
Ben has kindly put his cards on the table before Wayne Routledge did, but apart from that it is no difference.

Grays situations was completely different.

I will always welcome back Routledge (i don't understand where the anger comes from, although im was on holiday when he threw his shirt to the ground), as i will Watson.

But the bottom line is if you are not committed to the short term future of the football club, then you shouldn't expect to be in the first team line up week in and week out.

A manager is their to manage. As I gave an example earlier, if a manager of a company had to look after a two year project and enrole a team to do it, and one of the major players you had in mind responded with "no problem, but expect me to leave in the near future, as I wont sign a new contract", then no matter how good i was at my job, i wouldn't expect to be involved in the important matters of the project, instead, i would expect to fill in when necessary before I left and expect my position to be replaced.

Thats what Warncok did with Carle and I don't see how football is different.

A non comitall Watson is no good to our cause, unless it is absolutely necassary, as a more comitted player is more important no matter how professional Watson has been.
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  #202  
Old 07-08-2008, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crunchie
Ben has kindly put his cards on the table before Wayne Routledge did, but apart from that it is no difference.

Grays situations was completely different.

I will always welcome back Routledge (i don't understand where the anger comes from, although im was on holiday when he threw his shirt to the ground), as i will Watson.

But the bottom line is if you are not committed to the short term future of the football club, then you shouldn't expect to be in the first team line up week in and week out.

A manager is their to manage. As I gave an example earlier, if a manager of a company had to look after a two year project and enrole a team to do it, and one of the major players you had in mind responded with "no problem, but expect me to leave in the near future, as I wont sign a new contract", then no matter how good i was at my job, i wouldn't expect to be involved in the important matters of the project, instead, i would expect to fill in when necessary before I left and expect my position to be replaced.

Thats what Warncok did with Carle and I don't see how football is different.

A non comitall Watson is no good to our cause, unless it is absolutely necassary, as a more comitted player is more important no matter how professional Watson has been.
I don't see the quotes from Watson moaning about not playing? Both sides in this are doing the best thing for themselves which is fine. As far as I can see both Ben and Neil are still on good terms. What I have a problem with is some of the over emotional rubbish that has been written in this thread recently and trying to equate the current situation with ones where a less professional outlook was taken.
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  #203  
Old 07-08-2008, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Beanie
But they hadn't already replaced him - Palace have replaced Watson.
You play your best team at your disposal. Are you saying that because Carle is in the team, Watson should be in the reserves? I would love to see both of them in the team or at least one of them on the bench.
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  #204  
Old 07-08-2008, 08:46 PM
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I wonder if Reading will be in for him now they have got money for Shorey
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  #205  
Old 07-08-2008, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by red&blue_moomin
I don't see the quotes from Watson moaning about not playing?
Nor do I. I have never said that

Both sides in this are doing the best thing for themselves which is fine.

Quote:
As far as I can see both Ben and Neil are still on good terms
I think that too, but my opinion, and its only my opinion, that Warnock prefers to play players that are committed to the cause longer term, I dont think Watson will play many games unless he absolutely has too, and expect him to be sold before the transfer window (as long as he doesn't keep on asking 15k a week)

Quote:
What I have a problem with is some of the over emotional rubbish that has been written in this thread recently and trying to equate the current situation with ones where a less professional outlook was taken.
Again I agree with you, but I am just looking at this from a different angle. I think there are too many people insisting we should play him because in their opinion he is better than the other players in the squad.

I think there are better players in the squad. He has always been great in a 3 man midfield in a 4-3-2 or a 4-3-3 but never have seen him play well in a 4-4-2. However he has dramatically improved his defensive skills and tackling under Warnock, but despite this feels he is better off elsewhere short term.

Fine, thats his right, but i don't see many premiership teams taking up the opportunity to sign a player on a relative low transfer fee for wages of 15k a week.

Some people on the BBS think he is worth 15k a week and more importantly he and his agent think he is worth it, and I maybe I am wrong, but i dont think he is.
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  #206  
Old 07-08-2008, 09:02 PM
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I maybe wrong but I think it is also partly the case that like Clinton, and Dougie ,Neil wasnt that fussed about keeping him.

He has yet to bring better than any of these , although arguably Carle is on a par with Watson albeit a different type of player
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  #207  
Old 08-08-2008, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 75points
I maybe wrong but I think it is also partly the case that like Clinton, and Dougie ,Neil wasnt that fussed about keeping him.

He has yet to bring better than any of these , although arguably Carle is on a par with Watson albeit a different type of player
If NW wasn't fussed they wouldn't have offered to make Watson the highest paid player at the club nor would they have made Morrison what he himself described as "great offer". I do think, however, that NW is not into persuading players to stay. He'll tell them like it is, make the offer he thinks is right and then leave it to them. He'll discuss but he won't persuade. If they're not convinced, want more or just want a new challenge he'll accept it and move on.
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  #208  
Old 08-08-2008, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clapham Grand
I wonder if Reading will be in for him now they have got money for Shorey
I was thinking something similar.

They're a bit short on ginger maestros now, aren't they?
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  #209  
Old 08-08-2008, 08:34 AM
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From the Mirror - different take on the Forest story:

Crystal Palace pull plug on Ben Watson's move to Nottingham Forest
By Football Spy 8/08/2008

Crystal Palace supremo Simon Jordan has pulled the plug on Ben Watson's 2million move to Nottingham Forest because he wants the money up front.

Midfielder Watson was cleared to tie up the deal a week ago but it was collapsing last night after Jordan stepped in.

Forest were paying about 1.5m for Watson plus more based on appearances and success, but Jordan did not want to wait for the cash
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  #210  
Old 08-08-2008, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crunchie
I think there are better players in the squad. He has always been great in a 3 man midfield in a 4-3-2 or a 4-3-3
Always important to have players who can react well to having a man sent off!

I agree with the point that he has always looked better in an central 3 than 2. However since the improvements you admit to yourself, have we seen him in a 2. I am not sure we have and therefore it maybe a little unfair to comment as such.

If we play a passing game then IMO the best passers at teh club should play, and the top 4 in no particular order are Carle, Watson, Derry and Moses. If we can fit them all into the side we would look very good IMO.
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  #211  
Old 08-08-2008, 08:45 AM
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Gonzo you are funny .

I can't believe Benny boy would even consider Forest. Wouldn't begrudge him a move anywhere and I would have no hard feelings if he left, but I would just question the wisdom.
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  #212  
Old 08-08-2008, 08:53 AM
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Think it would be best if this was resolved by August 31st, either by Ben signing a new contract or leaving. Dont like the idea of him running down his contract, looks like the Sidwell situation. My preference would be to cash in on him. Good luck to Ben whatever the outcome though.
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  #213  
Old 08-08-2008, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by spt1978
Dont like the idea of him running down his contract, looks like the Sidwell situation.
And they look like each other as well
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  #214  
Old 08-08-2008, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by spt1978
Dont like the idea of him running down his contract, looks like the Sidwell situation.
THe same Sidwell who in the year he ran his contract down was so impressive Chelsea wanted him? Ok he was on a free and no risk but villa have just shelled out 5m for him.

Sidwell was a major reason Reading stayed in the Prem that season, if Ben contributed enough to help get us up, how much is that worth?
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  #215  
Old 08-08-2008, 09:35 AM
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I would be very suprised if SJ pulled the plug on a 1.5m deal which could rise to 2m for the sake of getting the money up front which would be very unlikely to happen now at all!
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  #216  
Old 08-08-2008, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shipp Ahoy!
I would be very suprised if SJ pulled the plug on a 1.5m deal which could rise to 2m for the sake of getting the money up front which would be very unlikely to happen now at all!
Unless of course there is a hint of 2m up front from elsewhere. Reading have some money once Villa's cheque clears.
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  #217  
Old 08-08-2008, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Big Blue Eagle
From the Mirror - different take on the Forest story:

Crystal Palace pull plug on Ben Watson's move to Nottingham Forest
By Football Spy 8/08/2008

Crystal Palace supremo Simon Jordan has pulled the plug on Ben Watson's 2million move to Nottingham Forest because he wants the money up front.

Midfielder Watson was cleared to tie up the deal a week ago but it was collapsing last night after Jordan stepped in.

Forest were paying about 1.5m for Watson plus more based on appearances and success, but Jordan did not want to wait for the cash
Some very informed sources on this very thread stated that the problem was the player's wage demands.

Seems like a bit of shite-stirring by the Mirror. CG et al or the Mirror? I know who'd I'd believe.
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  #218  
Old 08-08-2008, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GreatGonzo
THe same Sidwell who in the year he ran his contract down was so impressive Chelsea wanted him? Ok he was on a free and no risk but villa have just shelled out 5m for him.

Sidwell was a major reason Reading stayed in the Prem that season, if Ben contributed enough to help get us up, how much is that worth?
20m+ ??
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  #219  
Old 08-08-2008, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GreatGonzo
THe same Sidwell who in the year he ran his contract down was so impressive Chelsea wanted him? Ok he was on a free and no risk but villa have just shelled out 5m for him.

Sidwell was a major reason Reading stayed in the Prem that season, if Ben contributed enough to help get us up, how much is that worth?
More like the same Sidwell who left for free when they should have cashed in on him. We would get screwed by the FA best to sell now.
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Old 11-08-2008, 03:33 PM
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According to The Mail...

Quote:
Warnock said: 'He made a decision he didn't want to sign a new contract so we have to look on.

'We have had offers that didn't match our valuation but there has been one where he didn't want to move north. And, as for Forest's supposed 2million bid, I've not heard that. But if Ben has not gone by the end of the transfer window in three weeks, there are opportunities for him within the fold.'
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