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  #81  
Old 24-06-2014, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Dorking .Eagle View Post
In 2010 Palace were mainly in debt to Simon Jordan (circa 20m?) and to Agilo (under 7m?). Ultimately the smaller debt was what sunk us.

Numerous clubs owe vastly more money than the figures which got Palace into Admin - Man United for example must owe hundreds of millions!!

Exactly, Agilo forced Jordan into admin for a 5M loan mainly borrowed as we didn't own our ground. Peanuts in modern football, and the majority of our debt was to SJ himself which he had to write off.

Our highest earning player at the time was Ambrose on about 13k week, nothing out the ordinary

What QPR have done the last 3 seasons is spend millions they cannot cover in turnover, an attendance of 18000 and paying players in excess of 90k a week.

It's on a different planet to what our club have ever done.
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  #82  
Old 24-06-2014, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by JAS78 View Post
Exactly, Agilo forced Jordan into admin for a 5M loan. Peanuts in modern football, and the majority of our debt was to SJ himself which he had to write off.

Our highest earning player at the time was Ambrose on about 13k week, nothing out the ordinary

What QPR have done the last 3 seasons is spend millions they cannot cover in turnover, an attendance of 18000 and paying players in excess of 90k a week.

It's on a different planet to what our club have ever done.
And what we did was worse than the 300k that puts league two clubs out of business.
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  #83  
Old 24-06-2014, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CPFC_DAVE77 View Post
Indeed - getting out of hand twice in a decade was embarassing.
yes but we paid the price for it - points deduction, fire sale of our best players, avoiding relegation to the third tier by a hair's breadth, and all the anxiety and stress of the takeover. Are QPR going to avoid punishment?
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  #84  
Old 24-06-2014, 11:55 AM
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It's a different planet because QPR have been able, to date, to service their debt, and we could not.
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  #85  
Old 24-06-2014, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by leelouca View Post
I think a points deduction system should be introduced.

Any loss of above 5 million should be 1 point deducted

Hence if you have a 10 million loss per year then you have a 5 point deduction.
The problem is that the debt will only be known when the accounts are published. That does not happen until the end of the Calendar year for the season just ended. As in the case of QPR, if these accounts show a defecit outside FFP how do you impose a points penalty on a team no longer in your competition.

What is interesting about FFP is that the accounts have to be supplied to the league in December or you cannot purchase players in January. It will stop teh late filing of accounts and if, like Birmingham a couple of years ago, your accounts are not being signed off then you lose a transfer window.

The basis of it is sound, the problem always was and is turning out to be - what do you do with teams who get promoted?
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  #86  
Old 24-06-2014, 12:00 PM
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Force them to produce accounts earlier. Require interim accounts. There could be all sorts.
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  #87  
Old 24-06-2014, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyStreet View Post
It's a different planet because QPR have been able, to date, to service their debt, and we could not.
Quite. People missing the point entirely. How much your dept is is pretty irrelevant. Its whether your paying it back or not. QPR are meeting their repayments.
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  #88  
Old 24-06-2014, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Billyd View Post
Quite. People missing the point entirely. How much your dept is is pretty irrelevant. Its whether your paying it back or not. QPR are meeting their repayments.
HMRC were as responsible as Agilo for us going into Admin. If Agilo hadn't done it SJ had already picked his administrator for the following day from what i heard at the time, when we were due at the High Court.
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  #89  
Old 24-06-2014, 12:13 PM
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If someone wants to throw millions at QPR why shouldn't he? Personally, outside of Charlton I can't think of a duller more pointless football club. But why this makes them 'scum' is slightly beyond me.
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  #90  
Old 24-06-2014, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TopKnot View Post
yes but we paid the price for it - points deduction, fire sale of our best players, avoiding relegation to the third tier by a hair's breadth, and all the anxiety and stress of the takeover. Are QPR going to avoid punishment?
They are meeting their repayments. We did not. That is what takes you into administration.

A company can be in 1 billion debt and carry on as long as its repaying as agreed. Another can be placed in administration because it cant pay a 250 bill.
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  #91  
Old 24-06-2014, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Billyd View Post
They are meeting their repayments. We did not. That is what takes you into administration.

A company can be in 1 billion debt and carry on as long as its repaying as agreed. Another can be placed in administration because it cant pay a 250 bill.
I think the question isn't about whether they are likely to go into admin as it stands, but if they are playing by the FFP rules..
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  #92  
Old 24-06-2014, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Billyd View Post
Quite. People missing the point entirely. How much your dept is is pretty irrelevant. Its whether your paying it back or not. QPR are meeting their repayments.
If comparing apples to apples - but we are comparing different fruits here. Yes, we cannot claim moral high ground on clubs who spend beyond their means but when we were in that position specific rules about how much a club is permitted to lose were not in place. Ergo, had we a benefactor worth billions then we'd never have hit the buffers as we spectacularly did, twice.

However, QPR knew the rules before kicking off last seasons campaign and flaunted them anyway. That is the crucial difference here.
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  #93  
Old 24-06-2014, 12:35 PM
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If The Premier League won't get involved to force the Football Leagues penalties for last year, that is one thing.

What happens when QPR are relegated back to the Championship?
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  #94  
Old 24-06-2014, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Windsor_Eagle View Post
If comparing apples to apples - but we are comparing different fruits here. Yes, we cannot claim moral high ground on clubs who spend beyond their means but when we were in that position specific rules about how much a club is permitted to lose were not in place. Ergo, had we a benefactor worth billions then we'd never have hit the buffers as we spectacularly did, twice.

However, QPR knew the rules before kicking off last seasons campaign and flaunted them anyway. That is the crucial difference here.
Yeap loads of clubs have and will continue to do so until the authorities starting dishing out proper punishments. But they wont. The problem here is football and the authorities not the individual clubs.

If QPR want to get into the PL, they will make sure they do and take the petty fine. Just like Man City, if they want to win the league they will take the fine and do so.
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  #95  
Old 24-06-2014, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by TopKnot View Post
I think the question isn't about whether they are likely to go into admin as it stands, but if they are playing by the FFP rules..
You were referring to our punishment for going into admin. That is entirely different. If QPR go into admin they will be punished similar to what we were.
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  #96  
Old 24-06-2014, 12:49 PM
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I'd like to see the option posted earlier that QPR's relegation (whenever it happens) is met with a rejection of the FL allowing them in unless they pay the entire fine plus accrued interest AND a season-long transfer embargo. I know it'd **** up the whole promotion / relegation picture up and down the leagues but it would be bloody funny!
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  #97  
Old 24-06-2014, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Windsor_Eagle View Post
I'd like to see the option posted earlier that QPR's relegation (whenever it happens) is met with a rejection of the FL allowing them in unless they pay the entire fine plus accrued interest AND a season-long transfer embargo. I know it'd **** up the whole promotion / relegation picture up and down the leagues but it would be bloody funny!
That's what I was thinking. It doesn't sound unreasonable and would be effective. If the FL had any bollox they'd state that now so QPRshite would have it hanging over their heads.
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  #98  
Old 24-06-2014, 01:01 PM
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But why this makes them 'scum' is slightly beyond me.
I see what you mean. Not sure I'd refer to them as 'scum' either, but they are definitely stupid divs.
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  #99  
Old 24-06-2014, 01:03 PM
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Or wankers, scums a bit harsh.
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  #100  
Old 24-06-2014, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Billyd View Post
You were referring to our punishment for going into admin. That is entirely different. If QPR go into admin they will be punished similar to what we were.
I was referring to breaking the rules with impunity in a broader sense - you were the one implying that us being in admin is a basis for comparison on the morality of breaking the FFP rules?
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