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  #29941  
Old 16-05-2017, 10:48 AM
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  #29942  
Old 16-05-2017, 11:32 AM
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When did people become so anti-British? Yes we've had dark times in our history but so has every. Was our stance to the slave trade any better or worse than the French, the Portuguese, the Spanish or the Dutch? Was our imperialism any better or worse than the other European powers? Or were we just a little more efficient at it?

And more importantly... what the hell does any of that have to do with Brexit?
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  #29943  
Old 16-05-2017, 11:34 AM
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Brexit and the view from the City of London
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“What the 27 other EU member states really think about Brexit and the City of London
Future access to the Single Market from London will be strictly controlled, politics will trump economics, and while most expect London to retain its dominant position as Europe’s financial centre, they also expect it to be damaged by Brexit.
1. Politics first - Maintaining the unity of the EU and the integrity of the Single Market is the overwhelming priority of the majority of EU27 countries. Nothing will be agreed in any sector until everything has been agreed in all sectors.
2. Tough talking - The UK will face a tough negotiation process with the three most important groups (Germany, France and EU institutions). Many of the UK’s closest friends are already adopting a relatively hard stance. While there is little appetite to ‘punish’ the UK, the stance of some countries has hardened in recent months in response to rhetoric in the UK.
3. An imperfect alternative - There is no option on the table that provides anything like the same access to the Single Market as being in the Single Market, and any access from London will be strictly controlled. Most (but not all) countries accept the need for a transitional deal for the City, but only for a short period and on the condition that the UK falls under EU jurisdiction during that period.
4. A focus on financial stability - The over-riding concern of most supervisors and regulators in the EU27 is financial stability and close cooperation with the UK authorities post-Brexit. Many supervisors are insisting on UK-based firms having a substantial local presence as part of any relocation, and any deal on financial services should include shared oversight of euro-denominated clearing (while some countries such as France are pushing hard for enforced physical relocation of these activities).
5. The future of the City - Most countries accept that London will continue as the dominant financial centre in Europe post-Brexit, but that a range of financial centres in the rest of the EU will benefit from the relocation of some UK-based business. The UK will lose influence in financial policymaking: there is growing support in the rest of the EU to accelerate the integration of supervision, regulation and market infrastructure across the EU27 – without the UK.
6. Competing for business - The UK faces a wide range of competition for business in different sectors post-Brexit. Some countries (such as France, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg and Poland) are actively pitching for firms to relocate, offering tax breaks and other incentives. Others (such as Germany, the Netherlands and Sweden) are taking a more passive approach to competition. Everyone agrees that some relocation of UK-based activity will be required.
7. An expensive rebalancing act - Brexit will lead to a potentially healthy rebalancing of financial markets activity across the EU as no single financial centre will be able to accommodate all the business that moves from the UK. This will be accompanied by an increase in the cost and complexity of financial activity due to duplication and relocation, a trade-off the EU27 is prepared to accept.
8. A weaker hand - The importance of the City to the EU economy is not as strong a card as many in the UK might have hoped. Many EU27 member states believe that the UK needs exports of financial services to the EU more than the EU needs exports of goods to the UK – without them our trade deficit with the EU would be a third bigger than it is.
9. A tortuous process - Negotiations on the future of the City will be more complex and more political than many expect: any agreement on services will be tougher than goods because the jobs, control and value remain with the country that provides the services. Few people in the EU27 expect a deal to be agreed in less than two years.
10. A race to the bottom? - Any suggestion that the UK would aim to attract business post-Brexit through deregulation or a more aggressive tax policy – the Singapore-on-Thames approach – would be seen as a direct threat to the EU27 and trigger a tough response”
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  #29944  
Old 16-05-2017, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieskyclad View Post
When did people become so anti-British? Yes we've had dark times in our history but so has every. Was our stance to the slave trade any better or worse than the French, the Portuguese, the Spanish or the Dutch? Was our imperialism any better or worse than the other European powers? Or were we just a little more efficient at it?

And more importantly... what the hell does any of that have to do with Brexit?
regarding the countries and their slave trades; worse, better , about the same, worse.

regarding imperialism, you could say that being more efficient made it worse.

It is not being anti-British it taking a more independent, well rounded view of history rather than relying on a version used by Imperial Britain to say why Britain was/is so great. When did so many people become unable to accept valid criticism?

As for the link to brexit. Anyone that used the phrase 'make Britain great again' should one, be punched in the face (very hard) and two, get a better understanding of how Britain became 'great'. The leave campaign used British Imperialism and the myths around it as a template for leave. Brexit and Imperialism are most definitely linked.

Last edited by chelmsfordeagle; 16-05-2017 at 11:49 AM.
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  #29945  
Old 16-05-2017, 11:49 AM
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Didnt we become Great by punching people in the face?
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  #29946  
Old 16-05-2017, 11:50 AM
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Didnt we become Great by punching people in the face?
yes. It therefore follows that the ****wits that use the phrase should like it.
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  #29947  
Old 16-05-2017, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieskyclad View Post
When did people become so anti-British? Yes we've had dark times in our history but so has every. Was our stance to the slave trade any better or worse than the French, the Portuguese, the Spanish or the Dutch? Was our imperialism any better or worse than the other European powers? Or were we just a little more efficient at it?

And more importantly... what the hell does any of that have to do with Brexit?
It's rather odd isn't. Intent on making extreme negative posts no matter what, and rather persistent too.

But adding the Slave trade to the growing list of if I can remember.

- Peasants Revolt
- WW1
- Of course WW2
- Hitler (several occasions), and spun off to the gas chambers,
and not really the Germans fault.
- Churchill
- Marshall Aid

I'm sure there's more, if anyone can add?

Last edited by palacea; 16-05-2017 at 11:55 AM.
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  #29948  
Old 16-05-2017, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chelmsfordeagle View Post
regarding the countries and their slave trades; worse, better , about the same, worse.

regarding imperialism, you could say that being more efficient made it worse.

It is not being anti-British it taking a more independent, well rounded view of history rather than relying on a version used by Imperial Britain to say why Britain was/is so great. When did so many people become unable to accept valid criticism?

As for the link to brexit. Anyone that used the phrase 'make Britain great again' should one, be punched in the face (very hard) and two, get a better understanding of how Britain became 'great'. The leave campaign used British Imperialism and the myths around it as a template for leave. Brexit and Imperialism are most definitely linked.
yes to all this.
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  #29949  
Old 16-05-2017, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Yes and that question is here:

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The last two of three polls said more people thought it was wrong to leave.
Why can't we use the Brexit vote as leverage for EU reform?

Reform and we will stay - don't reform and we leave.

Seems bloody obvious to me.
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  #29950  
Old 16-05-2017, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Langers View Post
Why can't we use the Brexit vote as leverage for EU reform?

Reform and we will stay - don't reform and we leave.

Seems bloody obvious to me.
Very good point - but as we know May wants a hard Brexit - its her choice
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  #29951  
Old 16-05-2017, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Oisin View Post
EU has put citizens rights as its top negotiating priority
Citizens rights yes, but why not help protect jobs as well? EU nationals in the UK have an above average likelihood to be working for agencies and on zero hours contracts and we all know those groups will be amongst the first to lose their employment in a downturn. I know of agency staff whose remittences to Bulgaria and Romania are very badly needed. So yes, protect their rights in the Uk but the gold plated officials and politicians throughout Europe should also be looking to protect employment oportunities. A hard line on Britain for political objectives won't achieve that.
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  #29952  
Old 16-05-2017, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Langers View Post
Why can't we use the Brexit vote as leverage for EU reform?

Reform and we will stay - don't reform and we leave.

Seems bloody obvious to me.
EU reforn is like one of those meetings at work where it needs total agreement and any one vested interest in the room can veto if it isn't convenient.
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  #29953  
Old 16-05-2017, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieskyclad View Post
When did people become so anti-British? Yes we've had dark times in our history but so has every. Was our stance to the slave trade any better or worse than the French, the Portuguese, the Spanish or the Dutch? Was our imperialism any better or worse than the other European powers? Or were we just a little more efficient at it?

And more importantly... what the hell does any of that have to do with Brexit?
It is what they do, innit.
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  #29954  
Old 16-05-2017, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
Plus in a few years I expect I'll be sending over food parcels to you lot. Tell me now if you're too proud to accept it.
Include some loquats, tiger tomatoes, emperadors and peaches amarillos please.
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  #29955  
Old 16-05-2017, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Langers View Post
Why can't we use the Brexit vote as leverage for EU reform?

Reform and we will stay - don't reform and we leave.

Seems bloody obvious to me.
As a quoted on the last page

the only reform the EU are interested in is further integration.

Cameron tried to get something and they told him to **** off.
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  #29956  
Old 16-05-2017, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by maestro View Post
As a quoted on the last page

the only reform the EU are interested in is further integration.

Cameron tried to get something and they told him to **** off.
Cameron tried it without a mandate from the British public and had no chance but this time they know Brexit is happening unless they reform. If we could pull it off, we would be seen as the saviours by the vast majority of EU citizens who deplore the loss of democracy.

WORTH A TRY IN MY BOOK - we would have the silent majority on our side and if they refuse to reform then we walk away with our heads held high. A WIN / WIN SITUATION FOR THE UK
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  #29957  
Old 16-05-2017, 05:36 PM
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yes to all this.
Says the man whose extortionate school fees were paid for with stolen Jewish gold.
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  #29958  
Old 16-05-2017, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Langers View Post
Why can't we use the Brexit vote as leverage for EU reform?

Reform and we will stay - don't reform and we leave.

Seems bloody obvious to me.
don't you think if we were important enough for the EU to contemplate this that they might have already suggested that?
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  #29959  
Old 16-05-2017, 07:19 PM
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More good news on falling house prices .

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  #29960  
Old 16-05-2017, 07:23 PM
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More good news on falling house prices .

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After having untold years of the fastest rising prices.
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