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General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum.

View Poll Results: MOTM v Chelsea
Guaita 125 49.41%
Ward * 2 0.79%
Cahill 26 10.28%
Tomkins 4 1.58%
Van Aanholt 5 1.98%
Kouyaté *** 68 26.88%
Milivojevic 1 0.40%
McArthur** 7 2.77%
Townsend 1 0.40%
Ayew 7 2.77%
Zaha 1 0.40%
Kelly * 3 1.19%
Schlupp ** 0 0%
McCarthy*** 3 1.19%
Voters: 253. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 10-11-2019, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panther View Post
Big Club Bias at its worst: Sheff Utd score the same number of goals as Spurs and still lose

Re your other point, a Chelsea supporting friend of mine couldn’t understand why we didn’t put more pressure on their ‘fragile’ defence (his description), but when you look at our line-up, I suppose the answer’s obvious.
Sheff Utd drew with Spurs
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  #42  
Old 10-11-2019, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Panther View Post
Big Club Bias at its worst: Sheff Utd score the same number of goals as Spurs and still lose

Re your other point, a Chelsea supporting friend of mine couldn’t understand why we didn’t put more pressure on their ‘fragile’ defence (his description), but when you look at our line-up, I suppose the answer’s obvious.
It was draw ?
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  #43  
Old 10-11-2019, 04:03 PM
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How have 4 voted for PVA?
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  #44  
Old 10-11-2019, 04:10 PM
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Guaita 7 Couple of good saves and looks confident
Ward 6 Thought he was doing ok despite under lots pressure
Tomkins 6 Solid but at fault for goal , not back to his best
Cahill 7 Good game
PVA 6 Thought generally he did ok
Milivojevic 6 Solid defensively but lacks quality on ball , offers nothing offensively
McArthur 6 Worked hard but offered little offensively
Kouyate 6 Played well defensively but has poor touch and offers little offensively
Ayew 6 Worked hard but no support
Townsend 6 Energy but not much else
Zaha 6 Our only quality but he is playing within himself - disappears too much

Schlupp 5 Didn't really notice him
McCarthy 5 As above
Kelly 6 Ok but struggles at full back
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  #45  
Old 10-11-2019, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Rhino View Post
Tomkins was awful for both goals, not sure how he can be rated so high from the couple of ratings so far.
Yes I'm a big tomkins fan , but since his injury he's not the same player.
Did he train on his own through the summer because injury was a real bad one . Might explain it. Lost the spring in his legs
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  #46  
Old 10-11-2019, 04:13 PM
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How have 4 voted for PVA?
Because he actually tried to go forward
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  #47  
Old 10-11-2019, 04:13 PM
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It was draw ?
1-1.
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  #48  
Old 10-11-2019, 04:13 PM
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Tomkins
Kelly has overtaken him.....
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  #49  
Old 10-11-2019, 04:15 PM
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exiledeagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietexiledeagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietexiledeagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietexiledeagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietexiledeagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietexiledeagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietexiledeagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietexiledeagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietexiledeagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietexiledeagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietexiledeagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
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1-1.
Am I missing some humour , you said Sheffield United lost
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  #50  
Old 10-11-2019, 04:32 PM
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With 15 minutes to go we were one down. Why did we not take off a midfielder and bring on Benteke ? I know he does not quite measure up to Lionel Messi but, as we saw against Man City, he could have helped to put a little bit of pressure on the Chelsea defence and provided some relief for our defence.
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  #51  
Old 10-11-2019, 05:11 PM
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McCarthy shouldn’t have been brought on but when he was he was the only midfielder who could actually pass a ball, neat 1 and 2 touch stuff - should start next game.
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  #52  
Old 10-11-2019, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by exiledeagle View Post
Am I missing some humour , you said Sheffield United lost
Actually it was you who said they lost, Panther was taking the mick.
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  #53  
Old 10-11-2019, 05:33 PM
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Actually it was you who said they lost, Panther was taking the mick.
As if....well, gently maybe.
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  #54  
Old 10-11-2019, 06:42 PM
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Actually it was you who said they lost, Panther was taking the mick.
oh yes :
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  #55  
Old 10-11-2019, 07:36 PM
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Not sure I can be a***d with this after reading a fairly depressing 24hrs of online rants but ....

The opposition - we met a Chelsea team full of confidence and boosted by the energy and belief of a heavy dose of youngsters alongside some top class talent of the likes of Kante. They were full of running and hit us hard from the off. James made his full PL debut for them in Wan-Bissaka fashion and for the most part smothering Wilf out of the game without showing any fear. powerful, fast, and good on the ball, it's a real shame we weren't able to buy him in the Summer. Pulisic and Mount (both look very similar on the ball) jinked, twisted and turned on their left while Willian, the old man in the side looked rejuvenated. Kante and Kosavic pulled strings in the middle and Abraham kept the CBs occupied.

Despite all of this we started in 433 shape with the front 3 starting higher up the pitch than we have been (find it odd saying that we sat back deep, we were pushed back but not by choice). The midfield 3 of Luka, Macca and Kouyate were everywhere mopping things up and despite the pressure the FBs coped pretty well. This meant that we restricted their chances to a couple of FKs from outside the box. It was impressive defensively but the front 3 couldn't get a sufficient foothold to allow us any significant time in their half. Andros was working extremely hard defensively helping Joel with Mount and Pulisic and this kept him deeper. Wilf didn't have a great first half emotionally or football wise. It's unpopular to say anything negative about him but it is how I saw it. He was constantly moaning at team mates and then the ref. Dangerously so with the latter and I did half expect a second yellow and a thrashing but the ref let him off. It looked like both Luka and Macca tried to get him to do something but he wasn't having it (obviously can't be sure but it looked like he wasn't doing something in gameplan?).

So with no outlets on the right or left it was up to Ayew who put in a shift but was always outnumbered. In the circumstances he did pretty well I think. I heard a comment attributed to Joe Cole on TV later in the day that rang true. He said that Palace defend likely a team but attack like individuals. Maybe strangers fits well. Part of this isn't helped by Wilf's style I think and nothing new. He is not a pass and run player but instead wants it to feet and see what he can do type - which frankly has been brilliant when it works and so has been a positive trade off.

Just before HT Joel pulled a groin muscle (I think) and Kelly had to deputise which he did pretty well after adjusting to the game and position.

So at HT I was relieved we hadn't conceded but couldn't see us scoring in a month of Sundays unless Wilf had a magic moment. Fair enough, because they looked in great form and a point would be a fine return.

Second half started in similar form but Wilf looked brighter and had stopped moaning. He still is far from his best but a big improvement and I just thought.... and of course inexplicably they scored. Doh! I say inexplicably because this was such a simple move and Tomkins, after shaping up for a better game for some reason started to watch the ball instead of the players, and being sucked towards it left Abrahams in space behind him. A magic touch by Willian put him in and he clinically finished it leaving Guaita no chance. A tiny slip but of course once we are behind, how do we equalise?

The answer to that should have been with a Tomkins header from a set piece because he found himself unmarked at the far post with the simplest of chances and headed it well wide when it was probably easier to score. Doh! So now a goal behind and having missed 'our chance' we opened up a little to get back into it. This worked but they eventually punished us with the help of a lucky deflection/bounce that gave Pulisic a super easy nod into the goal. Credit to him for following in but FFS. We were beaten by then.

James had a stellar debut against Wilf who was 'in his pocket' as they say. Or at last as the fan outside the ground thought

Kouyate was likely the best player for us winning the physical challenge and pushing us up the pitch. Guaita not far behind but I do think he has to improve his confidence with the ball at his feet and kicking. He is visibly shaky and it encourages them to press. Macca had a very good first half too.

Like most of these tough matches. If we had avoided the lapse of concentration of the first goal or taken the chance Tomkins had then things could have been very different. The common problem is our inability to get up the pitch. Wilf's dip in performance is a key factor obviously enough but we have to find a way to handle this. Right now Liverpool looks like a big ask. They play ugly and win at their worst but on their day can destroy teams. Today's not the day to worry about it though so.....

One more thing I guess. I don't completely understand the despondency online. I didn't enjoy the game too much but this wasn't a shock. We lost 2-0 away at Chelsea and we were rarely opened up against an exciting attack and midfield. I hear and can relate to the 'well we could at least have a real go' but if we had lost 5 or 6-0 then GD is bust and the mood would be even worse. No shame losing that game of course. Going forward, the quality on the ball and the lack of teamwork up front is an issue. Failure to bolster the striking options in the window and with Joel injured - full back cover seems even more stupid. It feels as if we will likely be at our level in the table after the Liverpool game. I didn't expect us to be in Europe 3 weeks back, nor in the bottom 3. I know many can't be happy with that but I suspect we have little choice unless further investment arrives from somewhere (which I doubt).
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  #56  
Old 10-11-2019, 07:37 PM
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We need Mama back and his passing setting up attacking phases. And I fancy us to beat Liverpool, I would also replace Ayew with Benteke for the game
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  #57  
Old 10-11-2019, 07:46 PM
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We need Mama back and his passing setting up attacking phases. And I fancy us to beat Liverpool, I would also replace Ayew with Benteke for the game
how can we beat Liverpool when we don't test the opposing keeper? 0-0 is the best we could hope for, and that aint gonna happen!
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  #58  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:42 PM
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Not sure I can be a***d with this after reading a fairly depressing 24hrs of online rants but ....

The opposition - we met a Chelsea team full of confidence and boosted by the energy and belief of a heavy dose of youngsters alongside some top class talent of the likes of Kante. They were full of running and hit us hard from the off. James made his full PL debut for them in Wan-Bissaka fashion and for the most part smothering Wilf out of the game without showing any fear. powerful, fast, and good on the ball, it's a real shame we weren't able to buy him in the Summer. Pulisic and Mount (both look very similar on the ball) jinked, twisted and turned on their left while Willian, the old man in the side looked rejuvenated. Kante and Kosavic pulled strings in the middle and Abraham kept the CBs occupied.

Despite all of this we started in 433 shape with the front 3 starting higher up the pitch than we have been (find it odd saying that we sat back deep, we were pushed back but not by choice). The midfield 3 of Luka, Macca and Kouyate were everywhere mopping things up and despite the pressure the FBs coped pretty well. This meant that we restricted their chances to a couple of FKs from outside the box. It was impressive defensively but the front 3 couldn't get a sufficient foothold to allow us any significant time in their half. Andros was working extremely hard defensively helping Joel with Mount and Pulisic and this kept him deeper. Wilf didn't have a great first half emotionally or football wise. It's unpopular to say anything negative about him but it is how I saw it. He was constantly moaning at team mates and then the ref. Dangerously so with the latter and I did half expect a second yellow and a thrashing but the ref let him off. It looked like both Luka and Macca tried to get him to do something but he wasn't having it (obviously can't be sure but it looked like he wasn't doing something in gameplan?).

So with no outlets on the right or left it was up to Ayew who put in a shift but was always outnumbered. In the circumstances he did pretty well I think. I heard a comment attributed to Joe Cole on TV later in the day that rang true. He said that Palace defend likely a team but attack like individuals. Maybe strangers fits well. Part of this isn't helped by Wilf's style I think and nothing new. He is not a pass and run player but instead wants it to feet and see what he can do type - which frankly has been brilliant when it works and so has been a positive trade off.

Just before HT Joel pulled a groin muscle (I think) and Kelly had to deputise which he did pretty well after adjusting to the game and position.

So at HT I was relieved we hadn't conceded but couldn't see us scoring in a month of Sundays unless Wilf had a magic moment. Fair enough, because they looked in great form and a point would be a fine return.

Second half started in similar form but Wilf looked brighter and had stopped moaning. He still is far from his best but a big improvement and I just thought.... and of course inexplicably they scored. Doh! I say inexplicably because this was such a simple move and Tomkins, after shaping up for a better game for some reason started to watch the ball instead of the players, and being sucked towards it left Abrahams in space behind him. A magic touch by Willian put him in and he clinically finished it leaving Guaita no chance. A tiny slip but of course once we are behind, how do we equalise?

The answer to that should have been with a Tomkins header from a set piece because he found himself unmarked at the far post with the simplest of chances and headed it well wide when it was probably easier to score. Doh! So now a goal behind and having missed 'our chance' we opened up a little to get back into it. This worked but they eventually punished us with the help of a lucky deflection/bounce that gave Pulisic a super easy nod into the goal. Credit to him for following in but FFS. We were beaten by then.

James had a stellar debut against Wilf who was 'in his pocket' as they say. Or at last as the fan outside the ground thought

Kouyate was likely the best player for us winning the physical challenge and pushing us up the pitch. Guaita not far behind but I do think he has to improve his confidence with the ball at his feet and kicking. He is visibly shaky and it encourages them to press. Macca had a very good first half too.

Like most of these tough matches. If we had avoided the lapse of concentration of the first goal or taken the chance Tomkins had then things could have been very different. The common problem is our inability to get up the pitch. Wilf's dip in performance is a key factor obviously enough but we have to find a way to handle this. Right now Liverpool looks like a big ask. They play ugly and win at their worst but on their day can destroy teams. Today's not the day to worry about it though so.....

One more thing I guess. I don't completely understand the despondency online. I didn't enjoy the game too much but this wasn't a shock. We lost 2-0 away at Chelsea and we were rarely opened up against an exciting attack and midfield. I hear and can relate to the 'well we could at least have a real go' but if we had lost 5 or 6-0 then GD is bust and the mood would be even worse. No shame losing that game of course. Going forward, the quality on the ball and the lack of teamwork up front is an issue. Failure to bolster the striking options in the window and with Joel injured - full back cover seems even more stupid. It feels as if we will likely be at our level in the table after the Liverpool game. I didn't expect us to be in Europe 3 weeks back, nor in the bottom 3. I know many can't be happy with that but I suspect we have little choice unless further investment arrives from somewhere (which I doubt).
Agree with most of this , although I don't think the midfield three did as well as you state. Passing was pretty poor, especially foward. Our slow build up wasn't incisive and broke down easily. Townsend's passing and decision making was slow and generally poor so was Jimmy's .

Also looked at first more like a 44 2. But haven't watched on TV yet .

Tompkins probably should have been on the bench given his performances since returning . Kelly now appears to offer mobility .
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Old 10-11-2019, 10:44 PM
sydnsteve sydnsteve is offline
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Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
We lost to second in the league. Match thread meltdown was unwarranted, especially the stick being dished out for Wilf.
I have defended Wilf throughout but that performance was appalling. He is our ONLY class player but that was his worst display all season. He was actually our worst player. No idea what can be done with him.
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Old 10-11-2019, 10:46 PM
sydnsteve sydnsteve is offline
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We need Mama back and his passing setting up attacking phases. And I fancy us to beat Liverpool, I would also replace Ayew with Benteke for the game
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