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  #81  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by Mat ov CPFC
As a genuine question, and with you as a medical proffessional, do you not feel that there is an element of not wanting to face up to the fact that perhaps black people are more vulnerable to schizophrenia because of cultural factors such as smoking dope ?

I have heard a black researcher put forward a theory that because immigration from the Caribean was done primarily by Ship that this allowed measles infections to be disproportionately high amongst pregant women coming to this country and that this may have caused a knock on effect. Most other forms of mass immigration have taken place primarily through air-travel or with people not travelling in such large groups in close proximitiy for reasonably long periods of time.
Mat it isnt only black people who smoke dope.
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  #82  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by Eaglesmad123
So does an addict
A heroin addict, yes, because like alcohol it's a chemical addiction. Any addiction to other drugs is purely psychological.
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  #83  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:40 PM
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I'm not sure changing classification does anything to change drug taking behaviour. I would be happier to see more sensible (rather than alarmist) education made available regarding the potential for more adverse effects of smoking the stronger stuff.
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  #84  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by Psychokiller
A heroin addict, yes, because like alcohol it's a chemical addiction. Any addiction to other drugs is purely psychological.
Yes but surely someone who takes drugs more than once a week is an addict.
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  #85  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by norwood_girl
I'm not sure changing classification does anything to change drug taking behaviour. I would be happier to see more sensible (rather than alarmist) education made available regarding the potential for more adverse effects of smoking the stronger stuff.
Precisely. Campaigns such as Talk To Frank are insulting to people's intelligence. If the government starts treating people like adults where drugs are concerned they're much more likely to stop people who can't handle it using.
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  #86  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by norwood_girl
I do think (and so do psychiatry people that I have spoken to on this subject) that black people are more likely to receive a schizophrenia diagnosis compared to a caucasian person presenting with the same symptoms. I really do doubt some of the literature that is published in this area of research.
I agree with you in some respects especially when you take into cultural considerations - ideas that are considered delusional in one culture may not be in another ie the way different cultures express religious experiences etc. Speaking anecdotally though the proportion of people from ethnic minorities entering psychiatric wards is far greater. A month ago over 50% of our ward were from ethnic minorities.
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  #87  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by Eaglesmad123
Mat it isnt only black people who smoke dope.

True. But it does seem to disproportionately effect Black people in terms of the mental illness it creates.

As I have already written it was the Black working class population of Brixton who were most vocal in their opposition to the experiment of effectively de-criminalising cannabis in the area because it was their kids who were suffering.
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  #88  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by Eaglesmad123
Yes but surely someone who takes drugs more than once a week is an addict.
That's bollocks.
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  #89  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mat ov CPFC
True. But it does seem to disproportionately effect Black people in terms of the mental illness it creates.

As I have already written it was the Black working class population of Brixton who were most vocal in their opposition to the experiment of effectively de-criminalising cannabis in the area because it was their kids who were suffering.
Can you back that up or is it what you think.
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  #90  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by Mat ov CPFC
But somebody who abuses alcohol is treated as a criminal. People get jailed for life every week because of it.

Thats a daft arguement.
No they dont, they get treated as a criminal for what they do when drunk, not for drinking.

Mere possesion of drugs is criminal, neither possesion nor consmption of alcohol is criminal.

The nearest an individual get to being treated as a criminal for drinking is for offences like 'drunk AND disoderly' or 'drink driving'.
The alcohol apsect of these crimes is related to the irresposibility of carrying out an action while under the influence of alcohol, the crime in NOT being under the influence.

Alcoholism or as you put it alcohol abuse is NOT a crime.
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  #91  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by celery stick
No they dont, they get treated as a criminal for what they do when drunk, not for drinking.

Mere possesion of drugs is criminal, neither possesion nor consmption of alcohol is criminal.


Try telling that to the Old Bill who kindly invited me to donate the beer I was drinking whilst having a lesiurely stroll up to White Hart Lane to the nearest bin.
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  #92  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:53 PM
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Mat as a church goer i wouldnt have thought you would have been a big drinker.
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  #93  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by Mat ov CPFC
Try telling that to the Old Bill who kindly invited me to donate the beer I was drinking whilst having a lesiurely stroll up to White Hart Lane to the nearest bin.
Point taken, sort of.
But not really.


I've had similar experiences.

Why did Old Bill ask you to do this?
I imagine he had public order in mind.
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  #94  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:56 PM
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Maybe he had had a few and thought it would be sensible to take the drink away from him.
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Old 18-07-2007, 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by Eaglesmad123
Mat as a church goer i wouldnt have thought you would have been a big drinker.
I have certainly cut down my intake substantially but recognise it as a potential problem in my life. But I am also a Catholic and we get a bit more lee-way than you Prods

And during my stroll to Tottenham it was more a case of just grabbing a last beer because the area is bereft of drinking establishments.
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  #96  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by Mat ov CPFC
I have certainly cut down my intake substantially but recognise it as a potential problem in my life. But I am also a Catholic and we get a bit more lee-way than you Prods

And during my stroll to Tottenham it was more a case of just grabbing a last beer because the area is bereft of drinking establishments.
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  #97  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mat ov CPFC
As a genuine question, and with you as a medical proffessional, do you not feel that there is an element of not wanting to face up to the fact that perhaps black people are more vulnerable to schizophrenia because of cultural factors such as smoking dope ?

I have heard a black researcher put forward a theory that because immigration from the Caribean was done primarily by Ship that this allowed measles infections to be disproportionately high amongst pregant women coming to this country and that this may have caused a knock on effect. Most other forms of mass immigration have taken place primarily through air-travel or with people not travelling in such large groups in close proximitiy for reasonably long periods of time.
I've certainly heard theories that in utero exposure to viruses may cause schizophrenia. However, I think that theory grew out of more people with schizophrenia being born in winter months and the assumption that viral exposure would therefore have been higher. Again, I'm not really convinced.

We know far less about schizophrenia than other mental health disorders. It's quite a complex syndrome consisting of a number of symptoms, diagnosis can be difficult as patients don't always present like the textbooks (hence my earlier comment about diagnostic accuracy). Also it's very difficult to do basic research into the disorder due to the lack of good animal models of the disease. Interestingly, the best animal model of the syndrome I have ever come across is produced by removing vitamin D from the diet of the mother whilst the rat is in utero and then weening the rats on the same diet for a few weeks after (you also have to modify the lighting so the rats can't synthesise it from their skin).

Perhaps you could argue that reduced vitamin D (from less available sunshine, a lot of West Indians don't drink milk due to poor tolerance) just might increase the prevelance of schizophrenia in this group. However, I still think that the higher stats are more to do with diagnosis. The Vit D hypothesis is however attractive as it may give us a clue regarding the bias towards schizophrenics being born in winter months.
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  #98  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:59 PM
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All of this "black people smoke cannabis therefore they're more predisposed to mental illness" stuff is bollocks. Studies suggest that if cannabis use was completely eradicated, cases of schizophrenia would be reduced by about 8%.
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Old 18-07-2007, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by celery stick

Why did Old Bill ask you to do this?
I imagine he had public order in mind.

Well I guess that fact that we had thrown the empties at their van was a factor

I think it was more a ban on street drinking in the area. Its something I agree with but since I was in the company of some reprobates I am blaming my tendancy to be easily led. And they were good enough about it although screeching up in a Meat Wagon seemed a little dramatic. Especially since it was just me and a Harry Potter look-a-like.
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Old 18-07-2007, 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by Mat ov CPFC
I would love to see this countrys drinking culture change. But its been part of this nations heritage since written records began.
True, and before written records, as has getting off your tits on anything available.
Mushrooms, deadly nightshade, caffeine (previously banned), and . . . . . . . HEMP!

More recently its been part of this nations cultural heritage to get off its tits on chemicals.
It would've been earlier if they'd know the formulas. Britain has a long and noble tradition of getting off its head.

But Britain is not unique, human beings have been using stimulants, strong or weak for millenia.
We've been doing it since we first chewed a coca leaf and found we could work for days on end or since we first got 'tipsy' on rotting apples.

Today we eat foods from every corner of the world.
Why would we want to limit or choice of stimulants based upon something called national cultural heritage?
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