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  #4461  
Old 04-07-2020, 09:12 AM
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Black British are under represented in the board rooms at the big music companies, women in the live business, etc etc etc - they're not talking about on stage so much as in the jobs within the industry. Lack of visibility limits what kids think they can do / aspire to. Ity's worth trying to change that, limits on people's aspiration harms everybody, not just the group immediately limited by it.
On the other hand it's a pain in the arse for anybody to be pushed to be visible in order to encourage others to step up. So DM is right that it's not a process you can change quickly by tokenism - but it is something to be aware of and to try to change.
It's why I think Jason Puncheon had a point in that video in-exile posted the other day.
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  #4462  
Old 04-07-2020, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by DANGERMOUSE View Post
What's the point, exactly? What do people expect? Of course black people are going to be in a minority most of their lives - the giveaway clue is the M in 'BAME'.

Britain is an overwhelming 'white British' country. I've seen a stat quoted that 14% of the population is BAME (or whatever we have say this week) - obviously the definition encompasses everyone who's not white British, so the black percentage will be much less than 14%. Much of the black population is concentrated in certain urban districts, meaning that outside of those the proportion in favour of white British is likely to be greater than 86%.

So I can't help thinking that some of the issues highlighted as example of 'D&I' (that's the new buzzword in my industry) failings are actually unrealistic expectations. For example, you hear a lot about BAME under-representation in the arts, acting and music. And maybe if you live in an inner London district where the BAME population is far higher than 14%, it might seem like that. But if you look at Britain as a whole, is the situation as bad as it's made out? Is the dearth of leading roles for black people that surprising when they are a such small percentage of the British population? Does it warrant the BBC's positive discrimination recruitment policies? You could argue that black people are significantly over-represented in British music, and are actually part of the problem of under-representation of other ethnicities.
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  #4463  
Old 04-07-2020, 04:27 PM
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You can't expect every single minority experience to be reflected in mass media. Race is but one aspect of that - there are plenty of other minority characteristics that don't get huge prominence. Sexuality, disability, geography, ways of life, cultures - when was the last time surly goths were represented in mainstream drama? (I can think of Mary from East Enders...!)

Unless a production is deliberately niche and aiming for a particular minority audience, TV and films have to aim for a wide audience simply to be commercial. That doesn't mean mass-appeal productions can't be made reflecting minority themes and casts, for example, nor does it mean that casting can't be colour-blind more often than it is, but that's not the same thing.

If the media starts giving more prominence to all the various minority characteristic we'll end up with a TV schedule which disproportionately under-represents the majority - which in terms of race is apparently 86% white British.
It’s not about racial representation for characters but opportunities for people to play a wider range of roles. Negative stereotypical casting was existent but this has begun to change dramatically in recent years. For awhile there has been positive casting, even in the 80s you would see Black Police Chief, Judges and Doctors etc in films, but at the same time there were alot of negative roles aswell that were stereotypes like the gangbanger or criminal and these were secondary roles. So you either had the positive stereotype or the negative one. This is what we really need to move beyond. Also find leading actors that don't have to work themselves up from opportunities that come from 'black roles' for example Slavery films or Hood films as that limits their opportunity, but to come from conventional stories where there are excellent characters that could be played by any race. Denzel Washington got recognition from 'Glory' a film about the Civil war and the first Black regiment (Amazing film, the end gets me in the throat, and Denzel deserved his Oscar) he then went on to become a leading man where his race didn't matter in A Grade blockbusters. It's about opportunities, and I think Hollywood has shifted and we will see more actors like Denzel given the opportunity and not from having to necessary be a stereotypical/historically ethnic role.

Another example of racial casting or stereotypes was of Asian people, they were either shopkeepers or businessmen. Glen from The Walking Dead was a great character who's race didnt matter.
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  #4464  
Old 04-07-2020, 11:20 PM
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Another example of racial casting or stereotypes was of Asian people, they were either shopkeepers or businessmen. Glen from The Walking Dead was a great character who's race didnt matter.
I’ve been binging the Walking Dead throughout lockdown, up to season 9 now. I don’t think it’s a particularly great show, I’m just hooked because I’m a sucker for zombie media. But to it’s credit, it is really excellent for ‘inclusive’ casting. As you say Glenn’s race doesn’t matter, nor does Michonne’s or Gabriel’s. There’s loads of ‘strong’ female characters and they don’t feel generic, they all have fleshed out personalities. I really don’t get how hard it could be to write female or BAME characters without them being cliches, but any show guilty of it could probably learn from the Walking Dead.

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  #4465  
Old 05-07-2020, 08:36 AM
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I’ve been binging the Walking Dead throughout lockdown, up to season 9 now. I don’t think it’s a particularly great show, I’m just hooked because I’m a sucker for zombie media. But to it’s credit, it is really excellent for ‘inclusive’ casting. As you say Glenn’s race doesn’t matter, nor does Michonne’s or Gabriel’s. There’s loads of ‘strong’ female characters and they don’t feel generic, they all have fleshed out personalities. I really don’t get how hard it could be to write female or BAME characters without them being cliches, but any show guilty of it could probably learn from the Walking Dead.
TV series do tend to be a lot better than movies in this regard
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  #4466  
Old 06-07-2020, 06:31 AM
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It’s not about racial representation for characters but opportunities for people to play a wider range of roles. Negative stereotypical casting was existent but this has begun to change dramatically in recent years. For awhile there has been positive casting, even in the 80s you would see Black Police Chief, Judges and Doctors etc in films, but at the same time there were alot of negative roles aswell that were stereotypes like the gangbanger or criminal and these were secondary roles. So you either had the positive stereotype or the negative one. This is what we really need to move beyond. Also find leading actors that don't have to work themselves up from opportunities that come from 'black roles' for example Slavery films or Hood films as that limits their opportunity, but to come from conventional stories where there are excellent characters that could be played by any race. Denzel Washington got recognition from 'Glory' a film about the Civil war and the first Black regiment (Amazing film, the end gets me in the throat, and Denzel deserved his Oscar) he then went on to become a leading man where his race didn't matter in A Grade blockbusters. It's about opportunities, and I think Hollywood has shifted and we will see more actors like Denzel given the opportunity and not from having to necessary be a stereotypical/historically ethnic role.
I don't disagree with any of that (apart from Glory - never seen it) but you see comments from some BAME actors who seem to expect that every production should have leading BAME characters, the way they bang on. That's not likely in a country that's 86% white, nor is it reasonable.

Quote:
Another example of racial casting or stereotypes was of Asian people, they were either shopkeepers or businessmen. Glen from The Walking Dead was a great character who's race didnt matter.
I'm watching the BBC sitcom The Other One - moderately amusing and heartwarming. (I was hooked because the main lead is in reinsurance! ) Anyway, her fiance is an Asian actor (Amit Shah) playing a bloke called Marcus. Initially I thought this must be colour-blind casting, because it's very rare to meet an Asian person with a non-Asian name. So far, so PC.

But it turns out that his character is a GP - and in the latest episode I've seen Marcus makes a joke that his dad would be so proud of his independence because he's the only one in the family who isn't a surgeon. They sound like very Asian tropes- the pushy parent and the medical career.

So now I don't know whether this show is advancing equal BAME acting opportunities, or repeating tired racist stereotypes.
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  #4467  
Old 06-07-2020, 06:42 AM
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Glory is a jolly good fillum but didn't get a theatrical release in the UK. More importantly it also features Cary Elwes who being both English and OTF is clearly one of the greatest humans of all time.
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  #4468  
Old 06-07-2020, 07:17 AM
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wrong thread bugger

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  #4469  
Old 06-07-2020, 07:20 AM
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If it’s feel good you are after than “Marvellous” about the ex stoke kit man who has learning difficulties is back on iplayer.


Well acted by Toby Jones.
Wrong thread?

You are correct about the programme though and thanks for the heads up - will watch it again after finishing the Kemp brothers mockumentary.
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  #4470  
Old 06-07-2020, 07:24 AM
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Wrong thread?

You are correct about the programme though and thanks for the heads up - will watch it again after finishing the Kemp brothers mockumentary.
Yes wrong thread.

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  #4471  
Old 07-07-2020, 01:21 AM
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Stll Game has the best sterotypical Asian character.
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  #4472  
Old 07-07-2020, 06:48 AM
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Stll Game has the best sterotypical Asian character.
Naveed is great, oddly, I have been rewatching Still Game the last couple of days.
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Old 07-07-2020, 01:05 PM
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I don't disagree with any of that (apart from Glory - never seen it) but you see comments from some BAME actors who seem to expect that every production should have leading BAME characters, the way they bang on. That's not likely in a country that's 86% white, nor is it reasonable.







I'm watching the BBC sitcom The Other One - moderately amusing and heartwarming. (I was hooked because the main lead is in reinsurance! ) Anyway, her fiance is an Asian actor (Amit Shah) playing a bloke called Marcus. Initially I thought this must be colour-blind casting, because it's very rare to meet an Asian person with a non-Asian name. So far, so PC.



But it turns out that his character is a GP - and in the latest episode I've seen Marcus makes a joke that his dad would be so proud of his independence because he's the only one in the family who isn't a surgeon. They sound like very Asian tropes- the pushy parent and the medical career.



So now I don't know whether this show is advancing equal BAME acting opportunities, or repeating tired racist stereotypes.
Not something I've concisuoly noticed a lot, but
just looking through Amit's wikipedia page To view the link you have to Register or Login surprising how many British sounding named characters he has played as well as Marcus, i.e. Karl, Jeremy, Fred, Nick, Axel, Adam, Oliver, Brannigan and Nigel. When it's an Asian name, quite often been a doctor.
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Old 09-07-2020, 03:53 AM
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Not sure where to post this...

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I'm not sure what I think of this... my gut is telling me it is too divisive and bad for team moral/spirit for not allowing all MLS player to participate. If it is a stand alone statement by black men and who play soccer, I guess it's fine, but have to say I prefer the all inclusive stance taken by German and English teams.

To be honest I find the report pretty lacking in detail, and a bit confusing. I might be reading it wrong.

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Old 09-07-2020, 08:47 AM
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Not sure where to post this...

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I'm not sure what I think of this... my gut is telling me it is too divisive and bad for team moral/spirit for not allowing all MLS player to participate. If it is a stand alone statement by black men and who play soccer, I guess it's fine, but have to say I prefer the all inclusive stance taken by German and English teams.

To be honest I find the report pretty lacking in detail, and a bit confusing. I might be reading it wrong.

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Seems fair, I'd support my black team mates. You don't have to participate in every single event to show solidarity. You can support others without having to 'take centre stage', at the end of the day its 'not about me'.
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Old 09-07-2020, 12:16 PM
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Slightly worrying statement from a pal of Floyd’s: To view the link you have to Register or Login
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Old 09-07-2020, 12:24 PM
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This is a real gem at the bottom of the article

"because Hitler was a bad person, and I know that.”
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Old 09-07-2020, 12:26 PM
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Slightly worrying statement from a pal of Floyd’s: To view the link you have to Register or Login
I saw Captain Jack play here in Charlotte a couple of times, he’s a lunatic.

“Racism is at an all time high” is perhaps a little hyperbolic on top of the other stuff he said, but then you have to drum up the anti Semitic support somehow
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Old 09-07-2020, 12:29 PM
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This is him having fun in Detroit, the full video is quite a watch
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Old 10-07-2020, 12:23 PM
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Sad to see a black MP is receiving such abuse that they've decided to close their constituency office.

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One email said: “There will come a time when you can’t breath[e], and we will all be happy, ” followed by an abusive term.

Another person wrote to say “come the revolution you will be one of the first”, while another said she was from “Londonistan”.




I mean, whoever would think to use such language?

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