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  #20341  
Old 24-01-2017, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mik59 View Post
It depends how sensible MPs are but it shouldn't be as you describe. There is a fundamental principle of our Constitution that these decisions are for Parliament so the end point should simply be that Government acts, on this, at the behest of Parliament and is accountable to Parliament.
True so no need for all the political posturing and talk of amendments which in reality mean **** all, unless it is a tactical ploy to give MPs an argument for going back on their word and reject triggering article 50.

For the firt time I am now actually wondering if it is going to actually happen.

What tactics were used by other countrues in the past, like Greece, to totally ignore a referendum result?
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  #20342  
Old 24-01-2017, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Parliament Act.

At best they can delay
Cannot be used as it was not somehow in the manifesto or something like that......I could be wrong??? Someone ???
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  #20343  
Old 24-01-2017, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Parliament Act.

At best they can delay
And modify.
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  #20344  
Old 24-01-2017, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
No. But they may reserve the right to reject any negotiated deal, which is when it might get juicy.
So in effect the EU divorce lawyers will be negotiating with our Westminster parliament, not our government. Now I am not sure if that is possible, but if it is, then yes all very interesting but even more messy than it even appears to be right now. laugh smiley. cry smiley.
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  #20345  
Old 24-01-2017, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by in-exile View Post
Cannot be used as it was not somehow in the manifesto or something like that......I could be wrong??? Someone ???
You are wrong. That's the Salisbury convention. There are only four, I think it is four, types of bill that the parliament act does not apply to. Private bills, bills that start in the lords, bills just before parliament ends a session and another one (which I have forgotten)
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  #20346  
Old 24-01-2017, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
You are wrong. That's the Salisbury convention. There are only four, I think it is four, types of bill that the parliament act does not apply to. Private bills, bills that start in the lords, bills just before parliament ends a session and another one (which I have forgotten)
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Yes the Salisbury convention .. only half heard it on LBC earlier somebody...Not a phone in pleb was saying it was in play?

Last edited by in-exile; 24-01-2017 at 07:57 PM.
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  #20347  
Old 24-01-2017, 07:43 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
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Tory remainers or opponents of May have gone very quiet in the last few weeks. We know most Tory MPs supported remain so something interesting is happening. It just feels like despite all the sabre rattling some kind of deal is being sketched out behind the scenes. A bit like when a government announces a tax or regulatory crackdown and the lobbyists go through some ritual shock horror statements. However, they seem half hearted which indicates that they have been left an escape clause or get out of jail card.
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  #20348  
Old 24-01-2017, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in-exile View Post
Delegates...Hummm somebody been listening to James O'Brien.... Being ex-Union allow me to prefer delegates..
Com'on it's just Remain timewasting .. treaties can be dissolved by governments .. No EU/UK laws that we already have could be changed without a parliamentary vote anyway!
In reality no rights are being taken away from UK citizens within the UK.
I listened to on 5 live today...

I only explained the role of a delegate last week to someone in Greenwich NUT who wants to go to conference this year.

Personally I think there should be a general election held on March 1 st. Let the public decide which party has the most persuasive and cogent plan in time to still invoke a50 by the end of March.
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  #20349  
Old 24-01-2017, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
True so no need for all the political posturing and talk of amendments which in reality mean **** all, unless it is a tactical ploy to give MPs an argument for going back on their word and reject triggering article 50.
First, as Adlers says, there is a majority that is willing to invoke A50 because they've already resolved to do so, even if that resolution wasn't binding.

Second, subject to the draft Bill the Government presents, there are some sensible amendments that basically ensure that the Government carries forward the basis of the Court judgement. This means that while the Government will represent the UK in the negotiations, the Government must also work with Parliament. This could replicate the standard process for negotiating Council Directives. The Government must get approval for objectives, report back via Committees (after each decision stage) and not sign up to the final version until it has passed Parliamentary scrutiny. This would mirror how the Council will work with the Commission as its negotiator.
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  #20350  
Old 24-01-2017, 08:47 PM
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No deals behind closed doors out of sight from our MP's...
Secondly - now someone can lay an amendment requiring a second but binding referendum
Then we can vote on the package without speculation and media manipulation
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  #20351  
Old 24-01-2017, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I'm thinking more about my family and friends.

Not being a Brexiter, my thoughts tend to not only focus solely around my needs.


For all the whingy accusations that Remainers keep boring everyone across social media I think the one Brexiters can't be accused of whereas many remainers can be is self interest. Come on !!
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  #20352  
Old 24-01-2017, 09:00 PM
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I'm a remainer. But I'm pretty sure if there was a second referendum tomorrow, the leave side would win by a bigger margin than they did the first time.
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  #20353  
Old 24-01-2017, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by daverambo2 View Post
I'm a remainer. But I'm pretty sure if there was a second referendum tomorrow, the leave side would win by a bigger margin than they did the first time.
yep. The large number of people worried by 'change' or Project Fear will see it hasn't been an unmitigated disaster
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  #20354  
Old 24-01-2017, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by daverambo2 View Post
I'm a remainer. But I'm pretty sure if there was a second referendum tomorrow, the leave side would win by a bigger margin than they did the first time.
What makes you think that?
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  #20355  
Old 24-01-2017, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by eaglejez View Post
yep. The large number of people worried by 'change' or Project Fear will see it hasn't been an unmitigated disaster
Stop that stupid nonsense leaving hasn't happened...inflation up and living standards down is the outcome so far
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  #20356  
Old 24-01-2017, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by bagler View Post
Didn't see that but have read this:-

9 June 2015, the Foreign Secretary said:


“The referendum on Thursday 23rd June is your chance to decide if we should remain in the European Union.”

“This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide.”

Additionally Cameron said there would be no going back, changing minds and trying to join the EU again if we voted leave. Unless of course his remain campaign was just all lies
He also said a vote to leave the EU is a vote to leave the single market. He couldve been lying tho..
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  #20357  
Old 24-01-2017, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by in-exile View Post
So I was talking to a head of unit Doctor last week, they work at Great Ormond Street...She told me at any one time 30 to 40% of her beds are taken by EU and non EU health tourists! ???
How is she defining Health Tourists? Are these people who've come here simply for the purpose of getting health treatment, if that is the case I doubt watch she's saying.

However if she means EU citizens and citizens from other counties who live here the majority of whom work and pay taxes and therefore fund the NHS then possibly esp in London due to the larger number of non British citizens living in London but I still doubt the figure of 40% as it is so disproportionate in terms of the number of immigrants to non immigrants in the UK
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  #20358  
Old 24-01-2017, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Biggineagle View Post
He also said a vote to leave the EU is a vote to leave the single market. He couldve been lying tho..
Context is everything.

But I rather think you misunderstood what he said.
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  #20359  
Old 24-01-2017, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mik59 View Post
First, as Adlers says, there is a majority that is willing to invoke A50 because they've already resolved to do so, even if that resolution wasn't binding.

Second, subject to the draft Bill the Government presents, there are some sensible amendments that basically ensure that the Government carries forward the basis of the Court judgement. This means that while the Government will represent the UK in the negotiations, the Government must also work with Parliament. This could replicate the standard process for negotiating Council Directives. The Government must get approval for objectives, report back via Committees (after each decision stage) and not sign up to the final version until it has passed Parliamentary scrutiny. This would mirror how the Council will work with the Commission as its negotiator.
Which all sounds good, and makes it sound like parliament will hold the Government to account in negotiations but in reality I think the influence will be minimal, at best, once Article 50 is triggered.
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  #20360  
Old 24-01-2017, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
What about Scotland, Nothern Ireland and London?
Scotland and Northern Ireland can have referendum on leaving the UK and may well do, as for London how far do you divide it down will individual consitenueis get to declare themselves independent and rejoin the EU. I hate to say it but we are going to have to suck it up and make the best of it
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