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  #11261  
Old 21-07-2021, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Okay I’ll bite on this.

If Starmer is a puppet whose role is to remove the left, who is behind all of this? What’s the secret cabal controlling him?
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  #11262  
Old 21-07-2021, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Except I never said that I said he made labour toothless and no threat to the status quo. From the Iraq war, to prisons for asylum seekers, to talking about immigrants swamping schools, to berating unions and upholding the draconian anti union laws to the praise from thatcher.
You forgot about Kashmir.
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  #11263  
Old 21-07-2021, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
LOL far too simplistic. ever thought that you and the left of labour spend way toooo much time on internal enemies in Labour rather then focusing on the Tories... no thought not.
They have to, what else can they do or what else do they have?

The people overwhelmingly said no and elected the worst possible gov't rather than elect a left-wing run party. That's a little hint telling you that you are fecked, and something needs to be changed.

I always wonder why the left does not start up a party of their own with all their wonderful policies and values and go up against Labour, the Tories etc., in their own right?

One side of Labour does not want the other, so trust your convictions and go for it. What could possibly go wrong?
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  #11264  
Old 21-07-2021, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by west country boy View Post
Arent you busy with your racist hatred of the Palestinians?
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  #11265  
Old 21-07-2021, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Don’t be ridiculous. It flows from his politics. The priority of the labour right is to purge the left and that’s where they have been focusing across CLPs across the country. They see the left as a bigger enemy than the Tories in many cases.
So Liz Kendall’s controlling him?
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  #11266  
Old 21-07-2021, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
They have to, what else can they do or what else do they have?

The people overwhelmingly said no and elected the worst possible gov't rather than elect a left-wing run party. That's a little hint telling you that you are fecked, and something needs to be changed.

I always wonder why the left does not start up a party of their own with all their wonderful policies and values and go up against Labour, the Tories etc., in their own right?

One side of Labour does not want the other, so trust your convictions and go for it. What could possibly go wrong?
Yes that’s right lol the left just want to attack the right, no interest at all in improving society. And you called me bollocks for brains.

But while you do nothing at all to get involved in politics your man that you trumpeted as the great hope now flounders in the polls even while offering nothing much at all in terms of change. And still all you can do is snipe at the left.
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  #11267  
Old 21-07-2021, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
And you called me bollocks for brains.
Even a stopped clock...
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  #11268  
Old 21-07-2021, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by west country boy View Post
Even a stopped clock...
That’s original. You’re such a tedious bore.
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  #11269  
Old 21-07-2021, 02:12 PM
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What I don't understand about the Labour left who basically disown everything from Kinnock until Corbyn is..

... If the Labour government of 1997 to 2010 were so awful, where was the room for the Conservative led governments since 2010 to have made it worse?

Or put it another way - would you rather the current Conservative government or a Blair-ite Labour one? Because it's very very clear from the last election - and from the 1980s - that you are not going to get a Corbyn style Labour government. And the other lesson from then and now is that all you do is get the worst Conservative governments.
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  #11270  
Old 21-07-2021, 02:19 PM
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Starmer’s having to self isolate now. One of his kid’s have got it.

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  #11271  
Old 21-07-2021, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
What I don't understand about the Labour left who basically disown everything from Kinnock until Corbyn is..

... If the Labour government of 1997 to 2010 were so awful, where was the room for the Conservative led governments since 2010 to have made it worse?

Or put it another way - would you rather the current Conservative government or a Blair-ite Labour one? Because it's very very clear from the last election - and from the 1980s - that you are not going to get a Corbyn style Labour government. And the other lesson from then and now is that all you do is get the worst Conservative governments.
It's a bit more complicated than that. The overwhelming majority of the Labour Left that remained in the party during that period campaigned for Labour in all those elections and were very clear that a Labour government was a much better option than a Tory one.

There were major policy areas where the left were in opposition to the leadership - PFI, tuition fees, the Iraq War etc, but very few people were of the view that the Tories wouldn't be a lot worse on these issues and many others.

In fact, in the years following the end of the Brown govt, the left were relatively isolated in arguing that the attempted stimulus packages of investment after the financial crash were broadly the right thing to do (with the exception of bailing out the banks), and that the austerity program of the coalition government was damaging. The centre and right of the party went along with the austerity program, the disaffection with which led to the Corbyn surge in 2015.
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  #11272  
Old 21-07-2021, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
What I don't understand about the Labour left who basically disown everything from Kinnock until Corbyn is..

... If the Labour government of 1997 to 2010 were so awful, where was the room for the Conservative led governments since 2010 to have made it worse?

Or put it another way - would you rather the current Conservative government or a Blair-ite Labour one? Because it's very very clear from the last election - and from the 1980s - that you are not going to get a Corbyn style Labour government. And the other lesson from then and now is that all you do is get the worst Conservative governments.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
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  #11273  
Old 21-07-2021, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
What I don't understand about the Labour left who basically disown everything from Kinnock until Corbyn is..

... If the Labour government of 1997 to 2010 were so awful, where was the room for the Conservative led governments since 2010 to have made it worse?

Or put it another way - would you rather the current Conservative government or a Blair-ite Labour one? Because it's very very clear from the last election - and from the 1980s - that you are not going to get a Corbyn style Labour government. And the other lesson from then and now is that all you do is get the worst Conservative governments.
Blimey. If those are your only options I am glad I emigrated ( and yes I know Trudeau is a w@nker).
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  #11274  
Old 21-07-2021, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by montrealeagle View Post
Blimey. If those are your only options I am glad I emigrated ( and yes I know Trudeau is a w@nker).
They were the only viable ones.

And as discussed earlier. There were plenty of positive moves that came out of that time (not that they will make up for the horrific war that took place).

I'd much rather that the party could be more left. I supported (and liked) Corbyn and most of his policies. But the last few months were pretty horrific and is where we are now.

But, the country will never go that way in the short term, so I'd much rather there was an aligned Labour party. But too much of Corbyn's supporters would rather blame Starmer than Johnson for what is currently happening.

Starmer was strong in PMQ's and opposed Johnson at every turn. Yet all you'll hear is how "he's supporting the government." When he's not, and it's pretty irrelevant because of the huge deficit the Labour party currently have.
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  #11275  
Old 21-07-2021, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by montrealeagle View Post
Blimey. If those are your only options I am glad I emigrated ( and yes I know Trudeau is a w@nker).
Rather Trudeau that the bloody Conservatives.
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  #11276  
Old 21-07-2021, 03:25 PM
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Rather Trudeau that the bloody Conservatives.
Even if he is what our PM calls a picaninny:

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  #11277  
Old 21-07-2021, 03:31 PM
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That Trudeau pic is amazing. He really went for it didn't he? This wasn't some daft student thing cobbled together in 20 minutes with shoe polish after too much scrumpy.
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  #11278  
Old 21-07-2021, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
What I don't understand about the Labour left who basically disown everything from Kinnock until Corbyn is..

... If the Labour government of 1997 to 2010 were so awful, where was the room for the Conservative led governments since 2010 to have made it worse?

Or put it another way - would you rather the current Conservative government or a Blair-ite Labour one? Because it's very very clear from the last election - and from the 1980s - that you are not going to get a Corbyn style Labour government. And the other lesson from then and now is that all you do is get the worst Conservative governments.
Firstly I don’t think that’s true. I think a better leader than corbyn from the left could have won and 2017 showed that.

And yes a Blairite government is despite all the terrible things it did, destroying hundreds of thousands of lives abroad, and with horrific consequences for asylum seekers here, was still better than the Tories. Is that it for humanity?
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  #11279  
Old 21-07-2021, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
That Trudeau pic is amazing. He really went for it didn't he? This wasn't some daft student thing cobbled together in 20 minutes with shoe polish after too much scrumpy.
He did it more than once on camera as well which is baffling. The picture up there is from some boat trip, which may "just" have been him and his mates, but there's also of course this from when he was a teacher in 2001:

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  #11280  
Old 21-07-2021, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Westminster voting intention:

CON: 41.9% (-2.8)
LAB: 33.1% (+0.2)
LDEM: 9.6% (-2.2)
GRN: 5.5% (+2.7)

via
@BritainElects
poll tracker, 20 Jul
Chgs. w/ 2019 election result (GB-wide)
Media much more on side. PLP on side. NEC on side. Becomes a party that will change nothing fundamental.

And…0.2% gain. Lol
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