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  #81  
Old 21-05-2010, 10:21 AM
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17 grand on Kuqi was over the top. You have to pay for someone who creates and scores. There are no obvious replacements out there. Still think this is pointless speculation unless the takeover goes t*ts up
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  #82  
Old 21-05-2010, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo
For a player who takes as many set pieces as him, including the penalties, 15 goals and 8 assists in 44 league appearances is not as impressive as many make out.
I just laughed so hard a bit of wee came out
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  #83  
Old 21-05-2010, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay_Palace
The wage bill at the club is not that ott though. I don't think we will see any outgoing activity until it is determined whether or not this CVA proposal is likely to be accepted.
I think Steve is actually bang on then money here. The main reason we are in trouble is that the wage bill is too high. The ground situation is a big issue (which will hopefully now be resolved). and having to pay to service debt is also a problem. The key issue though, is the wage bill. Fail to sort that out, and even if the takeover goes through, then short of a major league sugar daddy, it's only a matter of time before we end up insolvent again.

In the longer term, we simply can't be paying anybody the kind of money Ambrose appears to earn. It's nothing to do with how good he is or isn't, it's about what we can afford. In that context, taking the best deal we can get to reduce the wage bill (and raise short term cash) may reluctantly be the best way forward
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  #84  
Old 21-05-2010, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Jason
I think Steve is actually bang on then money here. The main reason we are in trouble is that the wage bill is too high. The ground situation is a big issue (which will hopefully now be resolved). and having to pay to service debt is also a problem. The key issue though, is the wage bill. Fail to sort that out, and even if the takeover goes through, then short of a major league sugar daddy, it's only a matter of time before we end up insolvent again.

In the longer term, we simply can't be paying anybody the kind of money Ambrose appears to earn. It's nothing to do with how good he is or isn't, it's about what we can afford. In that context, taking the best deal we can get to reduce the wage bill (and raise short term cash) may reluctantly be the best way forward
The frightening thing is that our wage bill is in the lower end of the table for a championship club!

The likes of Reading, QPR, Sheff Utd, Derby & Ipswich have 10M+ plus wage bills!

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  #85  
Old 21-05-2010, 11:52 AM
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I always find it interesting this issue of 'living within your means'. If you take it literally - only spending what you earn - then we probably should have the economy of a League One or Two club. I'm guessing that wouldn't be acceptable to many...
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  #86  
Old 21-05-2010, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Will S
I always find it interesting this issue of 'living within your means'. If you take it literally - only spending what you earn - then we probably should have the economy of a League One or Two club. I'm guessing that wouldn't be acceptable to many...
Tough though, isn't it?

From what has come out of the woodwork about our debts, clearly we should not have signed Kuqi, Lee, Ambrose, Danns and no doubt a fair few others - these players are and were quite simply beyond our means.
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  #87  
Old 21-05-2010, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMexicanHorse
The frightening thing is that our wage bill is in the lower end of the table for a championship club!

The likes of Reading, QPR, Sheff Utd, Derby & Ipswich have 10M+ plus wage bills!

So do we - try multiplying 800k by 12 and then adding the 750k pa bonuses!

And a lot of clubs do not have that kind of wage bill - we have to become one of those clubs. It is going to get more difficult though the 4 year parachute payments are going to kill clubs like Palace's chances of making the prem other than if we have a really really lucky streak.
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  #88  
Old 21-05-2010, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooders
Tough though, isn't it?

From what has come out of the woodwork about our debts, clearly we should not have signed Kuqi, Lee, Ambrose, Danns and no doubt a fair few others - these players are and were quite simply beyond our means.
Thats the rock and a hard place.

Lets hope the take over happens soon, and leave it up to CPFC2010 to decide, whether it is a good idea to keep these players on higher wages that we could possibly afford, (or not) as they are only a few players left on good contracts, or do we purchase good lower league players for a small(er) transfer fee.

Although I do appreciate there will be alot of free transfers about, but we still might not be able to afford, due to their inflated wages as they are on a free.

Still hopefully football will change soon, as there are so many other clubs in trouble.

If Lee is on high wages, then he is easily replaceable..

Ambrose, Danns and Speroni aren't so replaceable so it will be interesting to decide what CPFC2010 will do, if the takeover goes through. Wouldn't blame though if they did sell, as long as they are not sold on the cheap.

I am sure though that everyone agrees that players already out of contract like Butterfield , Derry etc, will have to accept lower wages, or they can leave.

Last edited by Crunchie; 21-05-2010 at 12:36 PM.
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  #89  
Old 21-05-2010, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will S
I always find it interesting this issue of 'living within your means'. If you take it literally - only spending what you earn - then we probably should have the economy of a League One or Two club. I'm guessing that wouldn't be acceptable to many...
You are probably right. But, if that's how CPFC2010 are going to run the club then we will have to get used to it. Sure, it will be frustrating if we fall behind in the promotion chase. But, if/when that happens, we should step back and remind ourselves of what the alternative is - flirting with oblivion again. I know which I prefer!!

It is not all doom and gloom though because, if the takeover does go ahead we will have the ground back which not only means an end to the rental payments but also an opportunity to increase revenue if the stadium is used more effectively (which shouldn't be difficult compared to how it has been up to now). Plus, surely the rest of the championship will have to start balancing their books sooner or later so the playing field might level out a bit in a few years (except for the distortions produced by the parachute payments but not much we can do about that one and, in any case, I still live in hope that the FL will show some balls and get a fairer dividend for the rest of the league clubs in return for agreeing this nice little premier league insurance policy).
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  #90  
Old 21-05-2010, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry from Sussex
I still live in hope that the FL will show some balls and get a fairer dividend for the rest of the league clubs in return for agreeing this nice little premier league insurance policy).
Good Post.

I also hope that includes League one and two too.

Football needs a fairer distribution with the money that floats around.
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  #91  
Old 21-05-2010, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owngoal
Steve Parrish would not want to see one of our small group of gems go so cheaply. Don't belive this is anything but speculation.
I think you may be wrong, the consortium will want to start with the lowest possible overheads, and make the own decisions on what we can afford to pay players, and no doubt Ambrose will be on a good amount.

I think a lot of supporters will need to re-adjust their thoughts on what we can and cannot afford, and I for one will welcome owners to put the finances 1st 2nd and 3rd.

Its always sad to see good players leave, but it's hardly new eh!
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  #92  
Old 21-05-2010, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunchie
Good Post.

I also hope that includes League one and two too.

Football needs a fairer distribution with the money that floats around.
Society needs a fairer distribution of money, but I can't see football being the forerunner in that field. The rich will get richer
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  #93  
Old 21-05-2010, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunchie
Thats the rock and a hard place.

Lets hope the take over happens soon, and leave it up to CPFC2010 to decide, whether it is a good idea to keep these players on higher wages that we could possibly afford, (or not) as they are only a few players left on good contracts, or do we purchase good lower league players for a small(er) transfer fee.

Although I do appreciate there will be alot of free transfers about, but we still might not be able to afford, due to their inflated wages as they are on a free.

Still hopefully football will change soon, as there are so many other clubs in trouble.

If Lee is on high wages, then he is easily replaceable..

Ambrose, Danns and Speroni aren't so replaceable so it will be interesting to decide what CPFC2010 will do, if the takeover goes through. Wouldn't blame though if they did sell, as long as they are not sold on the cheap.

I am sure though that everyone agrees that players already out of contract like Butterfield , Derry etc, will have to accept lower wages, or they can leave.
It's a question of having to. I will be really sorry to lose pretty much any of the current squad considering what we have been through and the special bond they have with the fans. But, if we can't afford them, then that's the reality we will have to face. Obviously spotting one or two gems from the lower leages might help but it's easier said than done because every one else is after them as well and you never know if they will cut it until you have already bought them. Personally I hope CPFC2010 look to build long term on the academy as that's a proven formula and much less of a risk financially. I'm not saying we could build a whole team that way like we did in the late 70s because football has changed and we would never have a chance in hell of keeping that many young stars together for any length of time these days. But, it is realistic to build a core of good young players supplemented by less talented maybe but more experienced pros to provide a bit of solidity while they find their feet. It's a longer term approach but one that is much more likely to enable the club to grow in a sustainable way in my view.
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  #94  
Old 21-05-2010, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Crunchie
Good Post.

I also hope that includes League one and two too.

Football needs a fairer distribution with the money that floats around.
Yes, I mean for the whole football league.
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Old 21-05-2010, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry from Sussex
It's a question of having to. I will be really sorry to lose pretty much any of the current squad considering what we have been through and the special bond they have with the fans. But, if we can't afford them, then that's the reality we will have to face. Obviously spotting one or two gems from the lower leages might help but it's easier said than done because every one else is after them as well and you never know if they will cut it until you have already bought them. Personally I hope CPFC2010 look to build long term on the academy as that's a proven formula and much less of a risk financially. I'm not saying we could build a whole team that way like we did in the late 70s because football has changed and we would never have a chance in hell of keeping that many young stars together for any length of time these days. But, it is realistic to build a core of good young players supplemented by less talented maybe but more experienced pros to provide a bit of solidity while they find their feet. It's a longer term approach but one that is much more likely to enable the club to grow in a sustainable way in my view.
end of the day we need to budget to what we can afford.lets make tickets 20 pounds all ground kids oap 5 pounds.lets fill the ground get the kids in.
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  #96  
Old 21-05-2010, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunchie
Thats the rock and a hard place.

Lets hope the take over happens soon, and leave it up to CPFC2010 to decide, whether it is a good idea to keep these players on higher wages that we could possibly afford, (or not) as they are only a few players left on good contracts, or do we purchase good lower league players for a small(er) transfer fee.

Although I do appreciate there will be alot of free transfers about, but we still might not be able to afford, due to their inflated wages as they are on a free.

Still hopefully football will change soon, as there are so many other clubs in trouble.

If Lee is on high wages, then he is easily replaceable..

Ambrose, Danns and Speroni aren't so replaceable so it will be interesting to decide what CPFC2010 will do, if the takeover goes through. Wouldn't blame though if they did sell, as long as they are not sold on the cheap.

I am sure though that everyone agrees that players already out of contract like Butterfield , Derry etc, will have to accept lower wages, or they can leave.
It all comes down to a very simple choice. Spend above your means and cease to exist of keep the books straight and play in L1

That does not mean you can't borrow to buy, but it means you must be able to meet the payments
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  #97  
Old 21-05-2010, 01:02 PM
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Thing about the price for Ambrose... a player is only worth what people are willing to pay.

If we need the money and Ambrose is a wanted man, his price will go higher. If only QPR are interested, it might be a case of taking what's given sadly.
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Old 21-05-2010, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by catman1971
end of the day we need to budget to what we can afford.lets make tickets 20 pounds all ground kids oap 5 pounds.lets fill the ground get the kids in.
More likely to charge 40 and 10 and have a half full ground
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Old 21-05-2010, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Beatleboy
Not sure I agree with that GG.

We rely on his excellent (and consistent!) taking of quality corners, free kicks and penalties. His set piece play is better than Ben Watson's ever was. In addition, he is technically very gifted ( look at his goal in that crucial Sheff Wed game - calmness personified in a pressure cooker environment).

Plus 20 goals from midfield.

That's pretty impressive to me!
You argue he is better than Watson, i dispute that. His corners are IMO no better than Ben's and we have little variation from free-kicks, Darren will either blast it or try and place it from anywahere within 35 yards. The reason he scored so many was partially down to the fact he was given the most opportunities at goal. Both Danns and Lee were better at hitting the target with chances than Ambrose.

Either we go into next season with are attacks formed around scoring goals from free kicks or we go for a more team orientated team build-up. If you go for the former then yes you need Ambrose but if you are looking to change the way we play he does not look as good in general play IMO. Therefore yes if the money was right, both income into the club AND reduction of one of our 2 highest earners then yes selling makes a lot of sense.

I would look to see how many offers we could get in and look to sell at higher than 1m-1.25m, money now.

To those who say he is a premiership player i would ask on what basis as he has played there yes, but flopped at both clubs.
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Old 21-05-2010, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Will S
I always find it interesting this issue of 'living within your means'. If you take it literally - only spending what you earn - then we probably should have the economy of a League One or Two club. I'm guessing that wouldn't be acceptable to many...
IMO the only way to give all clubs a fair chance is to create a wage cap/spending cap that is equal to all clubs. Some clubs will then make a profit while others break even. I see no point in having a league structure whereby the richest teams win everything.
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