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  #61  
Old 02-08-2016, 12:44 PM
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I'd say ignore all the bull in the press and just wait and see what happens. I'd wager we'll have our strongest ever squad by the end of the window. No point getting hysterical because of rumours.
  #62  
Old 02-08-2016, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by GB2506 View Post
Didn't realise the league table was based purely on midfields??

We were 5th at Xmas last year before our injury crisis derailed the rhythm and momentum we built up. Had we kept that team together from the first half of the season i'm confident we would have finished in the top half and surpassed our 10th place finish the season before. The same 10th place finish that Jedinak wasn't really involved in from January through to April.
If's and But's
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  #63  
Old 02-08-2016, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by gilesy14 View Post
2014/15? To have a look at him, as he'd just joined as manager? Even then, it was often McArthur, Ledley & Punch who played & we excelled with.

2015/16? Because McArthur was injured, as was Cabaye on & off?

Please come back to me with our form once he did come back into the side also. Cheers. The side with McArthur, Ledley & Puncheon finished higher FYI bbz.
Such a knob sucker! My post was basically against Yohan Cabaye!! Pro Punch and the old midfield shape....that didn't always have Miele in it!
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  #64  
Old 02-08-2016, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by in-exile View Post
That's the point, our midfield is weaker with Cabaye last year than the year before and Cabaye being there unsettled Punch ....last year we were much more often overpowered in midfield.....you could see the goals coming as our midfield then defense was pulled about and apart!
Do I mention Miele jednak?
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  #65  
Old 02-08-2016, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Celestial Empire View Post
Slowly but surely, one by one, we are losing our tough guys, the 'captains on the field', without adequate replacements. Is that because Pardew hates strong characters who will express an opinion ?
Better start hoping that Tomkins steps up to the plate.
They also can't pass a football......

Cabaye's defensive stats are actually comparitive to Jedi's and McArthurs are not far off either. We probably could get another season or two out of Jedi but he is clearly not first choice anymore. A newly promoted side would do well to get him in to add some back bone and experience for a player like Jedi he should be playing. We have too many midfielders really Cabaye, McArthur, Williams, Punch, Jedi, Ledley, Mutch, Lee-Chung Yong, Boateng for two positions.

Williams and Boateng I can see going on loan but that still leaves too many.
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  #66  
Old 02-08-2016, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Tomo View Post
Tells a more realistic story than a baseless opinion spouted.

I'd like to see possession stats with and without him in the team.

I adore Jedinak but he's clearly not going to feature much and probably isn't the player we need anymore if we're honest.
It was an amateur use of stats. Ridiculous to pin that on one player - it's a team game. Who knows what the decisive factor was in each of those games. It's not as if Jedi plays in goal and is letting in howlers is it.

The man is a legend. He's good enough to get in our match day 18 unless we sign players of superior quality which I don't see any sign of yet.
  #67  
Old 02-08-2016, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by in-exile View Post
So why did AP bring him back into the team?
Also which midfield finished higher?
Plus i'm more taking about Cabaye unbalance of the midfield.
Just FYI:

Spurs (Win 2-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Burnley (Win 3-2) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Everton (Loss 0-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Leicester (Win 1-0) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Newcastle (Draw 1-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Arsenal (Loss 1-2) Mutch, Ledley, Punch
West Ham (Win 3-1) Jedinak, Mutch, Punch
Saints (Loss 0-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
QPR (Win 3-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Stoke (Win 2-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Man City (Win 2-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Sunderland (Win 4-1) Jedinak, McArthur, Punch
WBA (Loss 0-2) Jedinak, McArthur, Punch
Hull (Loss 0-2) Jedinak, McArthur, Punch
Chelsea (Loss 0-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Man Utd (Loss 1-2) Jedinak, Ledley, Punch
Liverpool (Win 3-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Swansea (Win 1-0) Jedinak, McArthur, Punch

So I think you'll find our best midfield was by far McArthur, Ledley, Punch.

If you still want to wank me off then cool. Cheers.
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  #68  
Old 02-08-2016, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in-exile View Post
Do I mention Miele jednak?
You're insinuating that we were better without Cabaye...on a thread about Mile Jedinak leaving...whilst quoting a post saying we'd be over-ran without Mile Jedinak. So yes, you do mention Mile Jedinak
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  #69  
Old 02-08-2016, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
I disagree that there is no causation.

The stats in themselves might not tell the whole story and yes other things affected those games but there is no doubt that in the games he played we had worse then relegation form. All other players who played in the similar role had FAR better records.

Did you know last season that when Dann, Cabaye, Bolasie and Wickham were on the pitch together we never 'lost' that period of football?

Our best defender, our best midfielder, our best striker and our most creative player. Those players playing meant we were an attacking threat, we occupied teams in their final 3rd and took pressure off the defence. When we were attacked Cabaye did a good job snuffing out the threat in midfield and Dann was often assured at the back.

The problem is we so rarely got them all on the pitch at the same time.

Conversely when Jedinak plays he sits back, invites pressure. He wind the ball in the air and then gives it away with his passing. All in we spend far more time defending when he plays as opposed to attacking. Net results is more draws and defeats as we start conceding more and scoring less.
Of course we were better when we had our best defender, midfielder, creative player and striker playing. What team in the league wouldn't be? You talk about those five to justify stats then pin all the bad form on Jedi alone. Quite frankly that is ridiculous. You have an agenda so you seek to use the stats to provide the 'evidence'.

It's team game and Jedi is an important component. Personally, I would start Cabaye and McCarthur but that doesn't mean I can't see the qualities Jedi brings. He's a leader and a great presence at the club. We've been lucky to have him imo.
  #70  
Old 02-08-2016, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
That is a huge leap to blame Cabaye for Punch's drop in form last season!
I don't think so!
Punch has always been a Maverick character who likes to be wanted and Loved, taking the freekicks and corners and being in the midfield tactical flare attacker role.
Cabaye taking free kicks and corners and being in the high paid mainman roll has put Punch off his game this year!
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  #71  
Old 02-08-2016, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in-exile View Post
If's and But's
It is not an if or a but that jedinak has had losing records when starting since we were promoted, especially in that past couple of seasons. Our other midfielders haven't.

Jedinak has been a huge player for us, both getting promoted and staying in the division, but he is a player for those 2 jobs, not for pushing on and maintaining a midtable position.
  #72  
Old 02-08-2016, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by gilesy14 View Post
You're insinuating that we were better without Cabaye...on a thread about Mile Jedinak leaving...whilst quoting a post saying we'd be over-ran without Mile Jedinak. So yes, you do mention Mile Jedinak
No a defence with Cabaye and McArthur often got overrun compared with our midfield the season before which might have had Miele in there but sometimes did not!!! I know you are an awkward w***** but my post was not Jedinak specific! Now drop it and piss off!
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  #73  
Old 02-08-2016, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
It is not an if or a but that jedinak has had losing records when starting since we were promoted, especially in that past couple of seasons. Our other midfielders haven't.

Jedinak has been a huge player for us, both getting promoted and staying in the division, but he is a player for those 2 jobs, not for pushing on and maintaining a midtable position.
Don't keep posting Miele Jedinak stuff at my posts....ffs!
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  #74  
Old 02-08-2016, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in-exile View Post
No a defence with Cabaye and McArthur often got overrun compared with our midfield the season before which might have had Miele in there but sometimes did not!!! I know you are an awkward w***** but my post was not Jedinak specific! Now drop it and piss off!
I guess you can argue that a midfield featuring a Hoover manufacturer would clean up in front of the defence better.

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  #75  
Old 02-08-2016, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by in-exile View Post
I don't think so!
Punch has always been a Maverick character who likes to be wanted and Loved, taking the freekicks and corners and being in the midfield tactical flare attacker role.
Cabaye taking free kicks and corners and being in the high paid mainman roll has put Punch off his game this year!
So why was Puncheon anonymous in almost every one of the games that Cabaye did not play? Its not like freed from the shackles of playing with Cabaye he suddenly came to life which rather discredits your theory.
  #76  
Old 02-08-2016, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by gilesy14 View Post
Just FYI:

Spurs (Win 2-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Burnley (Win 3-2) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Everton (Loss 0-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Leicester (Win 1-0) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Newcastle (Draw 1-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Arsenal (Loss 1-2) Mutch, Ledley, Punch
West Ham (Win 3-1) Jedinak, Mutch, Punch
Saints (Loss 0-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
QPR (Win 3-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Stoke (Win 2-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Man City (Win 2-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Sunderland (Win 4-1) Jedinak, McArthur, Punch
WBA (Loss 0-2) Jedinak, McArthur, Punch
Hull (Loss 0-2) Jedinak, McArthur, Punch
Chelsea (Loss 0-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Man Utd (Loss 1-2) Jedinak, Ledley, Punch
Liverpool (Win 3-1) McArthur, Ledley, Punch
Swansea (Win 1-0) Jedinak, McArthur, Punch

So I think you'll find our best midfield was by far McArthur, Ledley, Punch.

If you still want to wank me off then cool. Cheers.
Jedinak, McArthur, Punch would be my starting midfield so it's Cabaye I'm talking about.... carry on yourself off!
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  #77  
Old 02-08-2016, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by in-exile View Post
Jedinak, McArthur, Punch would be my starting midfield so it's Cabaye I'm talking about.... carry on yourself off!
You would not start Cabaye in midfield from our current squad?

  #78  
Old 02-08-2016, 01:10 PM
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So why was Puncheon anonymous in almost every one of the games that Cabaye did not play? Its not like freed from the shackles of playing with Cabaye he suddenly came to life which rather discredits your theory.
He's roll within the club did not change just because Cabaye did not play that day!!! Alan Pardew is rumoured to struggle with established players....it's his Job to get the best out of Punch, how did that work out at Wembley?
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
You would not start Cabaye in midfield from our current squad?

That's 100% right he has not been the Superstar you might believe....Punch was the matchwinner the season before!
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:14 PM
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He's roll within the club did not change just because Cabaye did not play that day!!! Alan Pardew is rumoured to struggle with established players....it's his Job to get the best out of Punch, how did that work out at Wembley?
He got the best out of Puncheon but sacrificed the man who had been keeping Rooney quiet. Net result was we lost. FWIW i thought McArthur should have gone off for Puncheon. However it was Jedi's man who both hit the bar and assisted the equaliser! McArthur slipped and missed Rooney and in teh process lost Mata and Puncheon well he was lost in terms of defensive contribution.

Overall our midfield fell apart as soon as our best player went off.
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