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  #661  
Old 15-12-2019, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonboy View Post
UK state pensions are frozen in Canada too. There is a great chance to get this addressed when the UK comes calling for new trade agreements. Lobby your government. Often.
Pointless in Australia, once one qualifies for the Aus Pension and hits the Assets test, unless your relatively well off and have above circa 1.6 Mill AUD in assets (including superannuation) beyond the family home. As any UK pension automatically comes off of the Australian government Pension dollar for dollar. Plus the clincher is the Aus Pension is paid at a much higher basic rate.
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  #662  
Old 15-12-2019, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ozzieEagle View Post
The US and UK have an indexed agreement, so you get the increases there.) So top up your UK Government pension if you can or feel the need.
That's what threw me, I didn't realize different countries had different rules.

I thought I had seen some blurb about the UK pension being deduct from a US state pension, but I have a couple of friends from the UK that are getting both countries pensions, and they have never mentioned any collaboration between the two.

Better than a poke in the eye, but last I saw I will be getting £139.71 per month from the UK when I'm 66. Not paid a penny into it for 40 years!
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  #663  
Old 15-12-2019, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
That's what threw me, I didn't realize different countries had different rules.

I thought I had seen some blurb about the UK pension being deduct from a US state pension, but I have a couple of friends from the UK that are getting both countries pensions, and they have never mentioned any collaboration between the two.

Better than a poke in the eye, but last I saw I will be getting £139.71 per month from the UK when I'm 66. Not paid a penny into it for 40 years!
Strange that, because I've been out of the UK since 1980 only in the workforce there for 10 years. I will be apparently getting circa 260 quid per month, (66 quid a week) not sure how that works?

Anyway it's pointless me getting it, as it just comes off pound for dollar of the Australian pension, the whole lot gets deducted. There again the Aussie government pension is higher than the UK government pension. .... Then there's the Australian Assets test.... it's bleeding complicated.

I actually just worked out before in the last hour or so, to fall to UK pension payment level (circa 590 quid per fortnight for a couple I believe), under the Australian Assets test, as a couple, as income is combined here for pension purposes, you need to have more than 480,000 AUD/245,000 pounds in assets above and beyond ones home. That figure includes private pensions though, which comes under the banner of Superannuation here, which most people have in Aus.
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  #664  
Old 15-12-2019, 06:20 PM
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Sounds like you and I worked about the same amount of time in The UK. I started my apprenticeship pretty much on my 17th birthday and left my last job in The UK to come here a week after my 26th birthday, so 9 years of contributions. Must admit, the £139 number was from a communication with NI at least 10 years ago, so may have gone up.

I'm certainly going with the attitude that I won't even get it, and not living my life like I will depend on it. If I get it, it will be a nice little bonus and will pay for a nice meal out once a month. Before I looked into it I just assumed I was going to get about £10 a month, so was pleasantly surprised.
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  #665  
Old 15-12-2019, 06:52 PM
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Looks like I'm OK as I have 30+ years paying US Social Security:

Quote:
Question: I was born and raised in the UK, and started paying USA Social Security taxes when I moved to the USA in my late 20's and began working here as a legal alien. Many years later I became a USA citizen.

I am a single (never married) man turning 65 this month. I had 6 qualifying years of National Insurance contributions in the UK before moving to the USA, and would normally need 10 qualifying years to be eligible for a State Pension from the UK. I can however "buy" up to 10 missing years at a favorable price under the terms of the UK pension scheme (the cost would be covered in less than a year of UK pension payments).

I am however concerned about the Windfall Elimination Provision. No USA Social Security taxes were deducted when I worked in the UK, at which time I had no connection to the USA. Would the pension from the UK affect my retirement benefits from the SSA under the provisions of the WIndfall Elimination Provision?

Answer: This is a tough one to answer definitively. First off, if you have at least 30 years of 'substantial earnings' (refer to: To view the link you have to Register or Login) in the US, you are exempt from the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP). If that's the case, any UK pension you receive will have no effect on your SS benefits.

Furthermore, 'totalization' benefits (i.e. foreign pensions based on both US and foreign work credits) are exempt from WEP. Based on your circumstances and my understanding of the UK pension system, I would think you would qualify for a UK totalization benefit. The US has an agreement with the UK permitting the UK to credit your work in the US for UK basic pension eligibility. Such a pension, based on credits from both countries, would not result in a WEP reduction.

Therefore, I would think you could qualify for the UK pension on the basis of credits under the existing agreement with the US, and without necessitating additional contributions on your part. If, on the other hand, you qualify for a separate UK pension based not based on the totalization agreement with the US, then that pension would likely result in a WEP reduction. I found nothing in the Social Security operations manual that addresses the possibility of making voluntary contributions in order to qualify a basic UK pension, so I'm unable to give you a more definitive answer.
All a bit bloody complicated!

Note: The question above was not from me, but looked like a pretty similar circumstance.
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  #666  
Old 15-12-2019, 07:11 PM
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Sounds like you and I worked about the same amount of time in The UK. I started my apprenticeship pretty much on my 17th birthday and left my last job in The UK to come here a week after my 26th birthday, so 9 years of contributions. Must admit, the £139 number was from a communication with NI at least 10 years ago, so may have gone up.

I'm certainly going with the attitude that I won't even get it, and not living my life like I will depend on it. If I get it, it will be a nice little bonus and will pay for a nice meal out once a month. Before I looked into it I just assumed I was going to get about £10 a month, so was pleasantly surprised.
They changed the rules again a few years ago to needing 35 years contributions for a full state pension but needing 10 years of contributions to get anything. If you have 9 years already you could make one year of voluntary contributions and you can go from nothing to 10/35ths of the full rate. You would get you additional "investment" back in under a year and after that it is gravy.
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  #667  
Old 15-12-2019, 07:18 PM
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Pointless in Australia, once one qualifies for the Aus Pension and hits the Assets test, unless your relatively well off and have above circa 1.6 Mill AUD in assets (including superannuation) beyond the family home. As any UK pension automatically comes off of the Australian government Pension dollar for dollar. Plus the clincher is the Aus Pension is paid at a much higher basic rate.
It is different in Canada. There are two state pensions. You qualify for one simply by living here, the other is based on compulsory premiums you pay during your working life. No account is taken of other income or assets.

An immigrant has fewer years to accumulate the state pensions here so a partial UK state pension tops this up. The lack of indexing can become an issue for people who live long after retirement.
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  #668  
Old 15-12-2019, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonboy View Post
They changed the rules again a few years ago to needing 35 years contributions for a full state pension but needing 10 years of contributions to get anything. If you have 9 years already you could make one year of voluntary contributions and you can go from nothing to 10/35ths of the full rate. You would get you additional "investment" back in under a year and after that it is gravy.
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Bloody hell... and there's an "R" in the month, and a full moon etc., etc..

I'll have to check out the one year catch up with the NI folks.
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  #669  
Old 15-12-2019, 07:53 PM
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Bloody hell... and there's an "R" in the month, and a full moon etc., etc..

I'll have to check out the one year catch up with the NI folks.
One year when the kids were young Mrs NKE only had a very part time job and she earned just under the point that you start paying NI. She got a letter to say that if she paid about £40 she could reach the threshold so that year would count. It was in the 90s.
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  #670  
Old 15-12-2019, 09:40 PM
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It is different in Canada. There are two state pensions. You qualify for one simply by living here, the other is based on compulsory premiums you pay during your working life. No account is taken of other income or assets.

An immigrant has fewer years to accumulate the state pensions here so a partial UK state pension tops this up. The lack of indexing can become an issue for people who live long after retirement.

There is one aspect of the UK pension that could help me. That 66 quid a week will come in handy, if my Aussie wife continues to work upon my reaching pension age of 66 in 14 months time or so. She's 32 months younger than me, but qualifies for the pension at age 67 instead of 66 with the age qualification changes. If she does continue to work after my 66th Birthday, her wages exempt me from the Australian government Pension due to the Australian Assets test. However I would get the UK pension.

We kind of don't need it, and it seems odd that my time in the workforce back in 1970 through to 1980 means that the UK taxpayer would pay me a bonus here to the tune of circa 125 AUD per per week. Whereas the Aus Tax payer wont pay anything even after 40 years in the workforce here.... whilst she is working.

Australia can probably afford it more than the UK can to be honest.
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  #671  
Old 15-12-2019, 09:53 PM
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Better than a poke in the eye, but last I saw I will be getting £139.71 per month from the UK when I'm 66. Not paid a penny into it for 40 years!
That canít be true.
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  #672  
Old 15-12-2019, 11:12 PM
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That can’t be true.
Why? I've got a letter from the Pensions mob in Wolverhampton dated 29th August 2018 giving me a quote of 63.04 pounds per week, or 274.11 a month, or 3289.34 per year. I've not paid in since January 1980, when I left the UK permanently having just turned 25.


Unless your saying HH quoted amount is too low, which it has to be compared to my forecast.


Like I keep saying though, it's worthless once you hit the assets test here in Aus as the Aus Government takes the lot from the Aus Government Pension.



Anyone in the workforce in Aus say for over 15 years, will be subject to the assets test, on account of the compulsory superannuation we have here. Not complaining though as the Aus Superannuation system is probably second to none in the English speaking world at least. Not sure how it compares to the Scandis and other parts of affluent Europe though.
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  #673  
Old 16-12-2019, 12:35 AM
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Quick question to the wise on here.Currently working and in the 40% tax band.If I retire my pension will be circa 22k pa,now will I pay 40% on that or will I drop down to the 20% band?
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  #674  
Old 16-12-2019, 12:45 AM
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I sold 2 businesses in my 50's 4 years ago and and own quite a bit of property so I'm never going to qualify for an Aussie pension. Only have about 7 qualifying years from the UK but sounds like "buying" another 3 years may be worthwhile!
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  #675  
Old 16-12-2019, 01:09 AM
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I sold 2 businesses in my 50's 4 years ago and and own quite a bit of property so I'm never going to qualify for an Aussie pension. Only have about 7 qualifying years from the UK but sounds like "buying" another 3 years may be worthwhile!
Yes in your case it definitely would be.

Unless you upsize to an expensive property, as the family home is exempt. Then you can spend as much as you like in your mobile/travelling years and cash the house in by downsizing later on in life. Remember you can add 300K tax free each your wife and yourself into your super account even after retirement with the downsizing rules here in Aus.

That's why I mentioned 1.6 mill in assets as the above strategy is worthwhile from that point on.

Everyone is different though and has different needs It's a strategy that could be useful to get that very important "pension card" Which one loses if they go above the assets test. Not so much the Pension that's important, but that card is.

You've probably got a decent income stream from the properties though.
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Old 16-12-2019, 01:33 AM
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Quick question to the wise on here.Currently working and in the 40% tax band.If I retire my pension will be circa 22k pa,now will I pay 40% on that or will I drop down to the 20% band?
You generally pay tax on your income in a tax year so most likely 20%.
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  #677  
Old 16-12-2019, 03:37 AM
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Yes in your case it definitely would be.

Unless you upsize to an expensive property, as the family home is exempt. Then you can spend as much as you like in your mobile/travelling years and cash the house in by downsizing later on in life. Remember you can add 300K tax free each your wife and yourself into your super account even after retirement with the downsizing rules here in Aus.
Already in an expensive riverfront home so wouldn't want anymore than we already have invested in a single property. Have a mixed portfolio of office, retail and residential property but may start selling some off as the market improves!
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  #678  
Old 16-12-2019, 05:16 AM
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Already in an expensive riverfront home so wouldn't want anymore than we already have invested in a single property. Have a mixed portfolio of office, retail and residential property but may start selling some off as the market improves!

Australia has been a great move for the majority of us UK migrants, especially the ones that came earlier than later.
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Old 16-12-2019, 10:45 AM
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I've seen a few bits on here regards states pensions and NI contributions, I've had a quick look on-line and this is how I've read it. Is this correct?

If your born before 1951 (men) or 1953 (women) you get the Full state pension if you have paid over 30 years of NI. If you haven't, then you get the basic state pension which can be topped up with the additional state pension. The additional pension is based on NI contributions, the closer you get to 30 years the closer you get to the full state pension.

I don't fall into that bracket as I was born after 1951 so I fall into "The new state pension". Which means I get so many years of basic + some additional as my starting block + some new state pensions based on NI contribution that take we up to 35 years’ worth of NI contributions.

If I was born after 2016, I would just get "The new state pension" based on £4.62 a week per NI contribution. Max of £35 years.

The main point is that I must contribute 35 years to get the full pension be it Full, New state or a mixture.
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Old 16-12-2019, 11:15 AM
Yoda Yoda is offline
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That sounds about right.

You can put your details including NI number into the pension calculator on the Govt website and that will tell you how many years of contributions youíve made.

A wise move if you might have a shortfall.
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