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  #19801  
Old 20-01-2017, 12:59 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
I'm actually struggling to understand Labour politics at the moment. The Economist the other week made the point that Labour was the big political loser in the UK over Brexit. They seem to be caught in an impossible trap on this issue between their middle class home owning, public sector professionals, liberal profesions and academic vote in London and the university towns and their more manual and working class vote in the rest of England and Wales. I just don't know what the answer is for them.

Re - the post referendum polls, it is a crying shame that we cannot cross tab the results. It would be great fun to play around with the Ashcroft poll so that we could see the results in much more detail.
They need to decide either way - now. If article 50 is whipped through a large chunk of their core support will be at risk. If it is not whipped through they risk their periphery. To carry on stumbling through trying not to upset anyone will simply not work.
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  #19802  
Old 20-01-2017, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave View Post
You realise that was 40 years ago?

Still think it's relevant?
Who knows but the commie-pinkos still wet themselves at the mention of her name. Mwhahaha.
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  #19803  
Old 20-01-2017, 01:32 PM
eaglejez eaglejez is offline
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
Our trade in goods with the EU is £223bn imports and £133.5bn exports. .
crikey - so if we did a Trump and whacked 50% tariffs on anything from the EU that would be bad.......for the EU ? (assuming we could get the stuff from elsewhere ?)
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  #19804  
Old 20-01-2017, 01:33 PM
eaglejez eaglejez is offline
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Originally Posted by Jukesy View Post
I have been in business for the last 30 years and I can assure you workers have far, far, far more "rights" than they had 10, 20, 30 years ago. Indeed it is my opinion that the employees at my company have more "rights" than the bosses.

Shows what little you know about the REAL world. Ideology is one thing, in practice it is very different.
exactly. Today is off the scale better
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  #19805  
Old 20-01-2017, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
I'm guessing you are too young to know but public services were falling apart due to strike action, there's not much worse than not getting your bin emptied. Any company making a profit was targeted and many were brought down, that helps no one. The government lost all control and tried to spend their way out eventually being bailed out by the IMF. They had to agree policy with the IMF, democracy went out the window.
It prepared the way for the socialist nemesis, Thatcher. Careful what you wish for.
#firstworldproblems.

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  #19806  
Old 20-01-2017, 01:39 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglejez View Post
crikey - so if we did a Trump and whacked 50% tariffs on anything from the EU that would be bad.......for the EU ? (assuming we could get the stuff from elsewhere ?)
That would be one approach. It stikes me that it might be quite self-destructive too given the interlinking of parts etc. I kind of prefer this approach.


Professor Woods:

Politically, this is a big call on both sides, Woods continues.

The cool constructive approach that the PM and chancellor are taking needs to quickly infect all their party and people who supported Brexit.

And she warns that the two-year timetable laid out under Article 50 may not be achievable.

“The ideal would be a 10 year period in which you could put each piece together and end up in a Churchillian world of a more coherent EU without Britain, and Britain as a constructive friend sitting alongside it”.


Or you could have a trade war and a race to the bottom. Trade wars always end well.
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  #19807  
Old 20-01-2017, 01:41 PM
eaglejez eaglejez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
That would be one approach. It stikes me that it might be quite self-destructive too given the interlinking of parts etc. I kind of prefer this approach.


Professor Woods:

Politically, this is a big call on both sides, Woods continues.

The cool constructive approach that the PM and chancellor are taking needs to quickly infect all their party and people who supported Brexit.

And she warns that the two-year timetable laid out under Article 50 may not be achievable.

“The ideal would be a 10 year period in which you could put each piece together and end up in a Churchillian world of a more coherent EU without Britain, and Britain as a constructive friend sitting alongside it”.


Or you could have a trade war and a race to the bottom. Trade wars always end well.
exactly - give us access to single market and we put zero tarriffs for EU goods. Hoping they don't go with the good old 'we must punish them for leaving' ahead of economic sense for all involved
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  #19808  
Old 20-01-2017, 01:48 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglejez View Post
exactly - give us access to single market and we put zero tarriffs for EU goods. Hoping they don't go with the good old 'we must punish them for leaving' ahead of economic sense for all involved
Will the average Brexiter allow for a 3,5,7,10 year transition period though? A period when we can leave in an orderly fashion. Orderly for the EU and orderly for us.

Personally I think there is a possibility that an FTA on the CETA model can be quickly agreed in two years (possibly starting in 2019). The trade imbalance is in our favour. A deal on services though? In theory the trade imbalance is still in our favour but services is a harder thing to negotiate particularly as it is kind of our baby.
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  #19809  
Old 20-01-2017, 01:51 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfnipplechips View Post
#firstworldproblems.

Actually, it was a serious problem in 1970 or 1971 when the bins didn't get emptied for several weeks. Good news for rodents though.
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  #19810  
Old 20-01-2017, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesy View Post
I have been in business for the last 30 years and I can assure you workers have far, far, far more "rights" than they had 10, 20, 30 years ago. Indeed it is my opinion that the employees at my company have more "rights" than the bosses.

Shows what little you know about the REAL world. Ideology is one thing, in practice it is very different.
He knows nothing ..Thinks he does , but reality is to him is a utopia where any employer should be at the mercy of its workforce. Yet interestingly enough he is absolutely blind to the fact that employees have huge rights these days and are as close to that as they have ever been ..
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  #19811  
Old 20-01-2017, 01:55 PM
eaglejez eaglejez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
Actually, it was a serious problem in 1970 or 1971 when the bins didn't get emptied for several weeks. Good news for rodents though.
78/79
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  #19812  
Old 20-01-2017, 01:56 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
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Agree with Hammond on this talking about the brexit vote.

"It was absolutely the opposite of the anti-trade rhetoric that we heard in the United States.

But what there was clearly was a strong strand of feeling against uncontrolled migration.

And I lay the responsibility for that squarely at the door of prime minister Blair who failed to impose transitional regime in the UK in 2004

So while other countries in Europe smoothly transitioned the A8 members and the freedom of movement from A8 members

Britain took the full force of the tide in 2004, and that created a public perception which we still haven’t shaken off to this day."
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  #19813  
Old 20-01-2017, 02:00 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
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Q: There is concern that there might be no agreement, two years after triggering Brexit, leading to a cliff-edge. How concerned would you be about that?

Wolfgang Schauble says it would be “a disaster for all of us if that happened.”

He adds that he is “totally convinced” London will remain an important financial centre for Europe after Brexit.

And he believes that a deal can be done in two years.
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  #19814  
Old 20-01-2017, 02:01 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
Out of interest CR how do you feel about suggestions that Corbyn will whip the Labour MPs to vote through article 50 despite 70% (supposedly) of Labour supporters wishing to remain in the EU?

It strikes me as very weak politically to ignore the vast majority of Labour supporters who prop up the labour party in order to appease the Labour North/Wales. Many in those areas voted who do not normally vote - were they even traditional Labour supporters?

Does Corbyn run the risk of losing the core of his vote in order to preserve the periphery?
I don't agree with him doing this. I think that there needs to be a full on attack on what May is doing.
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  #19815  
Old 20-01-2017, 02:03 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I guess that can be true. But the railway strikes were not just about inconvenience; they were deliberately engineered to cause the maximum public chaos. I don't think they did the union cause any good.
I don't know whether they were or not, I'm not in that union. But causing chaos and disruption is obviously a way to pressure the employer and the government in to a settlement that can benefit workers.

Far more of a worry for me than disrupting the public is that we have the lowest ever strikes in history (pitifully low), and a whole raft of anti-union legislation which could make this even worse (although they can't get much lower). This is a huge problem in a society where real wages are going down massively.
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  #19816  
Old 20-01-2017, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by eaglejez View Post
78/79
correct 70/71 was the miners strike and consequent power cuts for everyone. Had a few days off school tho because of it , so I wasnt that bothered then .
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  #19817  
Old 20-01-2017, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
Agree with Hammond on this talking about the brexit vote.

"It was absolutely the opposite of the anti-trade rhetoric that we heard in the United States.

But what there was clearly was a strong strand of feeling against uncontrolled migration.

And I lay the responsibility for that squarely at the door of prime minister Blair who failed to impose transitional regime in the UK in 2004

So while other countries in Europe smoothly transitioned the A8 members and the freedom of movement from A8 members

Britain took the full force of the tide in 2004, and that created a public perception which we still haven’t shaken off to this day."
It was a mistake but what a load of lies - he's been in government since 2010 - why didn't he use these regulations to stem the flow then?

Secondly regulations permit member states to stop immigration if they can prove that it has had a negative impact - why didn't they invoke these?
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  #19818  
Old 20-01-2017, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
Q: There is concern that there might be no agreement, two years after triggering Brexit, leading to a cliff-edge. How concerned would you be about that?

Wolfgang Schauble says it would be “a disaster for all of us if that happened.”

He adds that he is “totally convinced” London will remain an important financial centre for Europe after Brexit.

And he believes that a deal can be done in two years.
So now you believe one German politician
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  #19819  
Old 20-01-2017, 02:06 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meee View Post
The answer would have been a lot easier 7 months ago.Instead of allowing the referendum to tear the Tories to shreds,a group of Labour MPs decided it would be a great chance to tear Labour to shreds instead.Now,as you say,it's a catch 22 with no way of winning.
Exactly. They would rather the Tories succeed than their own leader.
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  #19820  
Old 20-01-2017, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesy View Post
I have been in business for the last 30 years and I can assure you workers have far, far, far more "rights" than they had 10, 20, 30 years ago. Indeed it is my opinion that the employees at my company have more "rights" than the bosses.

Shows what little you know about the REAL world. Ideology is one thing, in practice it is very different.
Rather than just making generalisations, give me some specifics.

Trade union rights have just been hugely curtailed. The right to sack someone for no reason within two years has been brought in recently. Employment tribunal rights have been massively attacked.

There are some rights that have got better, such as paternity rights, but overall, and crucially the right to organise as workers, has been made much worse since the 80s onwards.
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