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  #21  
Old 15-08-2019, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod 10 View Post
If so, then stay and represent all of them under the party you won with. Your personal opinion should not come into it.
There must be occurrences where you must carry out the choice of the majority in your constituency, or stand down.

Politics should really be simple to carry out, but we have somehow made a right hash of it over the last 15 or so years.
A no-deal Brexit was not part of the Conservative Manifesto. Perhaps she thinks a no-deal Brexit is not in the best interests of her constituents.

As has been said many, many times, MPs are representatives, not delegates.
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  #22  
Old 15-08-2019, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Tripod 10 View Post
Surely there must be some new legislation brought in place that automatically means a by-election will take place.
Imagine this. A backbench MP votes against their own Government to try to prevent local hospital closing down. Government withdraws whip, MP becomes a technical independent, or even joins another party because that party is committed to saving the hospital, and thus a bye election is called.

Doesn't seem right to penalise MPs for standing up for their constituents.
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  #23  
Old 16-08-2019, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Tripod 10 View Post
Fair point, but on the ballot paper in a general election are the names of parties, not individuals.
Conservative won the last one. If during that period they believe a new leader is required they are entitled to elect one.
I could not stand Blair or Brown but as Labour won that election their leadership can change accordingly.
Are you on a wind up?
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  #24  
Old 16-08-2019, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by se1eagle View Post
True, and in fact it was only in 1970 that party names were allowed on the ballot paper, after someone changed their name to Ted Heath and stood against him

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I didnít know that!!
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  #25  
Old 16-08-2019, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
You vote for the person. Their names are right there on the paper.



You dont vote directly for the party in a GE.

Thank you for clarifying it seems voters did not know what they where voting for in general elections, therefore all votes should be voided and forget it took place.
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  #26  
Old 16-08-2019, 07:18 AM
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Frank Field has formed his own party for the next election having stood down from Labour.

He’s got to overturn a huge Labour majority and he’s not going to. One might ask why? Well guess what, if a sitting MP loses his seat he gets a much bigger payoff than if he simply doesn’t stand.
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  #27  
Old 16-08-2019, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod 10 View Post
I vote whenever I am invited to.
Happy to stand corrected on this one. I couldn't recall a candidates name appearing on my ballot paper, I thought it just said the party name.
Definately doesn't - It will have the names of the individuals and the party they represent. You vote for the MP, in theory, rather than the party. The only people who actually elect the PM, are those voting in his or her constituency.

That isn't actually what people do, mind. Most people tend to vote for a party or party leader. Increasingly politics seems to be have been a blur of 'party line', possibly the best thing Brexit has done is 'break up' that mentality of the party line, and bring back the notion of convictions, rather than following the whip.
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  #28  
Old 16-08-2019, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tasty_snacks View Post
Imagine this. A backbench MP votes against their own Government to try to prevent local hospital closing down. Government withdraws whip, MP becomes a technical independent, or even joins another party because that party is committed to saving the hospital, and thus a bye election is called.

Doesn't seem right to penalise MPs for standing up for their constituents.
I think this is the best arguement against it that I've read. Even if you made it a case that only MPs who willingly left the party, and crossed over, had to face byelection it'd just encourage the party whips to bully people into leaving.

Less party, more individual I say.
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  #29  
Old 16-08-2019, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tasty_snacks View Post
Imagine this. A backbench MP votes against their own Government to try to prevent local hospital closing down. Government withdraws whip, MP becomes a technical independent, or even joins another party because that party is committed to saving the hospital, and thus a bye election is called.

Doesn't seem right to penalise MPs for standing up for their constituents.
How about widening the Recall of MPs Act of 2015?

Currently allows a ballot if they are convicted of a crime as happened in Peterborough. Would be pretty simple to add leaving their party, or joining a party (if an independent is voted in) to the list. If they are doing a good job locally they should survive that, if not it goes to a by-election.
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  #30  
Old 16-08-2019, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod 10 View Post
If so, then stay and represent all of them under the party you won with. Your personal opinion should not come into it.
There must be occurrences where you must carry out the choice of the majority in your constituency, or stand down.

Politics should really be simple to carry out, but we have somehow made a right hash of it over the last 15 or so years.
Your personal opinions, beliefs and convictions are why you're selected by the party as a candidate, and kind of why you should be voting for someone - not their party. I think we've become too detached from engagement with MPs, and we create a culture where we believe they should be 'representing us' without us having ever spoken to, or contacted them.

The election process contains plenty of chances to meeting and get to know a candidate and their objectives, political goals and ideas. I'd imagine most will respond to emails to some degree on most subjects - and if you don't like what they say, don't vote for them.

No deal seems to be staggeringly unpopular in the house, with good reasons, its all risk with minimal reward.
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  #31  
Old 16-08-2019, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Frank Field has formed his own party for the next election having stood down from Labour.

He’s got to overturn a huge Labour majority and he’s not going to. One might ask why? Well guess what, if a sitting MP loses his seat he gets a much bigger payoff than if he simply doesn’t stand.
Frank Field is a long serving MP and the reason he has a big majority is down to his personal support in his constituency. He was one of the Labour MP's targeted by the extreme left to deselect which is the main reason he has become an independent. He will take a lot of votes from the "official" Labour candidate and indeed may win. I sincerely hope he does win, he deserved better from the party.
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  #32  
Old 16-08-2019, 04:48 PM
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Agreed Percy, Field always came across as a good egg
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  #33  
Old 16-08-2019, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod 10 View Post
I vote whenever I am invited to.
Happy to stand corrected on this one. I couldn't recall a candidates name appearing on my ballot paper, I thought it just said the party name.
Both name and party appear on the ballot paper. In the old days it was just the name without any mention of the party.
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  #34  
Old 18-08-2019, 10:18 AM
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Churchill changed party no?
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  #35  
Old 18-08-2019, 05:09 PM
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Obeying the Conservative whip appears optional at present so I'm not convinced having it withdrawn is such a big deal. Perhaps it should be. Take the whip away from ERG and other dissenters, the party fragments and away we go. Same for Labour.
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  #36  
Old 19-08-2019, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by biggus mickus View Post
Churchill changed party no?
MPs changing parties is not all that uncommon. Oswald Mosley was an MP for the Tories, Labour and the New Party. The New Party was formed a few months after after 15 Labour MPs signed the Mosley memorandum (including Aneurin Bevan ), by 6 Labour MPs who all quit Labour to form the party.
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