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  #21  
Old 25-11-2021, 09:43 PM
dogstar721 dogstar721 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
Or you earn money the old fashioned way... you inherit it!
Or you take it from the wealthy.
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  #22  
Old 25-11-2021, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
The crisis in the energy markets leading to these companies failing was caused by government interfering in capitalism. If the government had not intervened with the price cap and let a capitalist market define its own price points, they would not be getting involved now.

You should be asking is government intervention in markets works!
The idea that you can only be warm if you have enough money is absurd.
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  #23  
Old 25-11-2021, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
Is always the losses that are socialised.
Well given CR believes profit always come from underpaying workers, presumably the workers in these energy companies have been overpaid and should really payback their overpaid wages.

(on a serious note, director's pay, bonuses and previous dividends should be looked at if any company was not in a position to pay them)
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  #24  
Old 25-11-2021, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
The idea that you can only be warm if you have enough money is absurd.
Quite, we used to burn Catholics free of charge and Witches got totally free water to dunk into.
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  #25  
Old 25-11-2021, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
This is possibly politics actually, but it's economics.

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So this is yet another company that has been propped up with public cash, taxpayer money. Normally they are banks, this time just another big company. Capitalism should be about profit off your own earnings but can any of these companies even operate without cash handouts? We slash corporate tax rates and pay ever decreasing wages, cheapen everything possible and still the government hands out tax breaks and grants and sweeteners. Do most companies even make their own money anymore? This isn't really capitalism as I understand it.

Adlerhorst needs to explain.
Sort of a shame that they arenít using the 1.7m customers from bulb as the start of a nationalised gas and electricity company which could also take on customers from the two other companies that failed today. This would have two purposes. One would be to help push the switch to clean energy and the other would enable us to see whether the state can run energy firms more efficiently that then private sector.
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  #26  
Old 25-11-2021, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
That's right mate. The government should keep it's nose out. In fact the schools, roads, health and police should be left to the market to find the most efficient solutions. Look at the banks the last 20 years to see how free markets run so efficiently for society.
Do I detect a hint of heavy irony?
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  #27  
Old 25-11-2021, 10:16 PM
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No.

Sarcasm perhaps.
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  #28  
Old 25-11-2021, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post

(on a serious note, director's pay, bonuses and previous dividends should be looked at if any company was not in a position to pay them)
They are the first to get their money, even if it’s their fault. Those contracts and bonuses must be honoured. P45 for the workers.

Last edited by Golf Boy; 25-11-2021 at 10:19 PM.
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  #29  
Old 25-11-2021, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
Sort of a shame that they arenít using the 1.7m customers from bulb as the start of a nationalised gas and electricity company which could also take on customers from the two other companies that failed today. This would have two purposes. One would be to help push the switch to clean energy and the other would enable us to see whether the state can run energy firms more efficiently that then private sector.
That doesnít help corporations become richer and more powerful though, so where is the interest in doing that?
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  #30  
Old 25-11-2021, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
The idea that you can only be warm if you have enough money is absurd.
I'm not sure regulation of the energy market over the last ten or so years has actually lifted anyone out of fuel poverty per se, compared to just identifying people in fuel poverty and helping them out.

The 6th (?) biggest energy supplier in this country having a three month survival horizon within a false market doesn't actually sound better than leaving things to real, actual capitalism.
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  #31  
Old 25-11-2021, 10:34 PM
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I just can't wait for all the golf courses to become nationalised so that so much rural/greenbelt land can be used by the many, not the few. Obviously they'll have to stop all the golf to make that happen.
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  #32  
Old 25-11-2021, 10:36 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
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In a way the electricity, like the water, gas, rail, postal and telecoms industries, are not run on a pure capitalist basis because of regulation. The strategy of the energy, postal and telecoms regulators has been to increase competition which has sometimes been at the expense of profits and investment. There are pros and cons to that.
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  #33  
Old 25-11-2021, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Eagle's Nest View Post
I just can't wait for all the golf courses to become nationalised so that so much rural/greenbelt land can be used by the many, not the few. Obviously they'll have to stop all the golf to make that happen.
Sport of the people.
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  #34  
Old 25-11-2021, 10:45 PM
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Sport of the people.
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  #35  
Old 26-11-2021, 01:06 AM
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It is compared to golfing in Chile.

Even if the UK, if you like to play golf, or spoil a good walk, green fees plus refreshments work out half the price of going to a Premier game as a casual fan. Ya know, the sport of the working class.

I suspect for those able to play several times a week, membership of a local club compares favoubly with the cost of a season ticket at certain grounds as well. 12 games of golf compared to 2 games of football a month (allowing for international breaks and getting knocked out of the cups in early rounds).
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  #36  
Old 26-11-2021, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
Well given CR believes profit always come from underpaying workers, presumably the workers in these energy companies have been overpaid and should really payback their overpaid wages.

(on a serious note, director's pay, bonuses and previous dividends should be looked at if any company was not in a position to pay them)
I know youíre joking but where do you think profits come from? Itís the surplus value, so workers donít get the full value of what they produce. One way of making a company profitable is to screw workers out of even more pay. But if a company goes bust the logic doesnít apply that workers are overpaid. How could they be, they are the ones who produce everything.
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  #37  
Old 26-11-2021, 02:36 AM
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I know youíre joking but where do you think profits come from? .
Innovatory and visionary thinking of company owners.
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  #38  
Old 26-11-2021, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
I know youíre joking but where do you think profits come from? Itís the surplus value, so workers donít get the full value of what they produce. One way of making a company profitable is to screw workers out of even more pay. But if a company goes bust the logic doesnít apply that workers are overpaid. How could they be, they are the ones who produce everything.
CR your world can only be implemented and enforced through the abuse of power, worse abuses than occur now.

Capitalism and competetiveness are part of us humans, just like love, selflessness and cooperation are also part of us.

Society and individuals are nowhere near to being advanced enough to make what you want work without subjegation. Moreover your world would be dull and bureaucratic.

Far better is to educate, evolve and harness the competetive spirit and hard work for more social benefit.

We need to eliminate poverty, stop fixating on eliminating all the rich. Equality of opportunity and rights is where we need to get to first of.

If some want to then work harder, innovate and take risk so that they contribute more and gain more then great. Why would you want to restrict such activity
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  #39  
Old 26-11-2021, 04:20 AM
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  #40  
Old 26-11-2021, 04:32 AM
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Great point.
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