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  #121  
Old 11-03-2009, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo

Do you know what is special about Julian Speroni and about Lee Hills now?
Go on.
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  #122  
Old 11-03-2009, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Away Day Eagle
Go on.
At 18 i believe Lee Hills is the oldest player at the club to have come through our academy.

Having signed 5 years ago Julian Speroni is currently our longest serving player, if he was to leave in the summer it would become Matt Lawrence 3 years ago and then Clint Hill just less than 2 years at the club this summer.

I think over the past 2 years the club has been in a period where as time has gone on it has lost its soul, and the heart has been ripped out. No long term players, no youth players coming through and staying now.

No idea if this had an effect on Bostock but i hadn't realised how much had changed in such a short space of time.
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  #123  
Old 11-03-2009, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo
At 18 i believe Lee Hills is the oldest player at the club to have come through our academy.

Having signed 5 years ago Julian Speroni is currently our longest serving player, if he was to leave in the summer it would become Matt Lawrence 3 years ago and then Clint Hill just less than 2 years at the club this summer.

I think over the past 2 years the club has been in a period where as time has gone on it has lost its soul, and the heart has been ripped out. No long term players, no youth players coming through and staying now.

No idea if this had an effect on Bostock but i hadn't realised how much had changed in such a short space of time.
Life cycle of a club our size in recent circumstances unfortunatley...
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  #124  
Old 11-03-2009, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo
But you also do not know what was done for them, what might or might not have been said to them.

We know that someone at Palace told him that NW would play long ball bypassing the midfield and he would not be suited to it (which has turned out to be quite accurate for long periods this season) and this was a factor in him going.

Lets not forget that NW refused to play him until he signed the contract (scholarship) after he turned 16, which may not have gone down too well with him. Was NW the right manager to deal with an emerging talent like him? Who knows, afterall he also left Ben Watson out of the team photo and refused to play him and we know what a difference he made to the side when Warnocks hand was forced. Not to mention the well published comments made to Clinton. That is before we even find out what the offer from Palace actually was.

Therefore i would ask what did Palace and Simon Jordan do for Bostock and his family?
This post is just full of inaccuracies.

First, we don't know what was or was not said about Warnock's style of play - we certainly know NW says it was rubbish.

Second, Warnock's hand was not 'forced' on Watson. He knew Watson wouldn't sign a new contract and therefore for financial reasons was required to sell him. He decided, therefore, not to play him at the start of the season as he expected him to be at the club for less than a month. When the transfer didn't happen and he knew Watson would be here for at least three months he started picking him. No 'hand forcing' there.

Third, we have resorted to long ball this season when the midfield has lacked anyone with the ability to create the time and space to allow play through the midfield. When we've had that, we've used it - as we would have done with Bostock.
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  #125  
Old 11-03-2009, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo
At 18 i believe Lee Hills is the oldest player at the club to have come through our academy.

Having signed 5 years ago Julian Speroni is currently our longest serving player, if he was to leave in the summer it would become Matt Lawrence 3 years ago and then Clint Hill just less than 2 years at the club this summer.

I think over the past 2 years the club has been in a period where as time has gone on it has lost its soul, and the heart has been ripped out. No long term players, no youth players coming through and staying now.

No idea if this had an effect on Bostock but i hadn't realised how much had changed in such a short space of time.
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  #126  
Old 11-03-2009, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo
At 18 i believe Lee Hills is the oldest player at the club to have come through our academy.

Having signed 5 years ago Julian Speroni is currently our longest serving player, if he was to leave in the summer it would become Matt Lawrence 3 years ago and then Clint Hill just less than 2 years at the club this summer.

I think over the past 2 years the club has been in a period where as time has gone on it has lost its soul, and the heart has been ripped out. No long term players, no youth players coming through and staying now.

No idea if this had an effect on Bostock but i hadn't realised how much had changed in such a short space of time.
Neatly ignoring that Butts is our longest serving player by a country mile, at least 3 years longer than Speroni. And yes I know he is currently out on loan, but he is still signed to the club.

The point about Hills is also nothing but spin. It may be true, but the reason for that is that in the years between Watson & Soares coming through & last seasons graduates from the academy,we didn't have any youth players making the grade, we got a good number of games from both Watson & Soares, so not sure really what laboured point it is you are trying to make.

No it's not f**king all roses in Selhurst, but then have a look around, it's not exactly raining gold at most of the clubs outside about half a dozen at the top of the Premiership. But excitingly for us, unlike so many other clubs, we've poured time & money into our academy & have now got 4 players all under 18, from our academy, in & around the first team squad, all of which we expect big things from for the future. With seemingly a few more set to break through you could argue that in some respects we are actually regaining out 'heart & soul'.
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  #127  
Old 11-03-2009, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo
Have 2 questions on that.

Firstly, what would be your thoughts and reaction should he return to Palace?

Secondly, on the youngsters we still have, where do you think they are now comapred to last year? Improved static or fallen back, and do you think there will be mch interest especially as clubs look to tighten their belts in hard times?
I'd be delighted if we could get Bostock back to Palace, we need a player of his ability in our midfield now nthat watson has gone.

I think it's a pretty well trodden path for youngsters that have made such a big breathrough, as 2 or 3 of ours did, to struggle a bit second season. It's how they deal with that inevitable drop of in form that is going to indicate where their carreer's are headed. It would appear that Scannell, Vic Mo & Hills have all got their heads down, worked hard & fought their way back into the 1st team picture, so I'm not desperately unhappy with how things have gone with them this season. Then again I'm not one of those who expected Victor & Seam to score the hatful of goals that would lead to promotion this season. That was always unrealistic & unfair to expect so much of players so young.

Yes there will be interest in both Sean & Moses in the summer, maybe even more because of the belt tightening. We are clearly short of a bob or 2, & the sort of sums probably needed to prise away any of our young talents would not reperesent a huge sum to a premiership club, but might just be the sort of , relatively, low cost signing that could pay real dividends.We'll receive offrs, will we be able to say no ? Not sure, hope so. But if we can't I'll dry my tears & get on with supporting my club through financially difficult times, for our chairman, & for our club.
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  #128  
Old 11-03-2009, 07:12 PM
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  #129  
Old 11-03-2009, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo
I would prefer to believe the Bostocks as the story has an element of truth to it and i simply do not trust anything mr 'Clever Sausage' has to say, he has been proved a liar time and again

Sorry, this is why I tend to disregard everything you ever say about Palace and Jordan, you are simply too blind regarding anything Jordan is involved in.
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  #130  
Old 11-03-2009, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle101
I haven't heard of many players of Bostock's age who progressed well from being coached by very good coaches and not playing
The Manchester United and Arsenal youth policies would suggest otherwise, be it homegrown or brought in at 15. Beckham, Fabregas, Scholes, Gerrard, G Neville spring immediatelly to mind.

The interesting one is Walcott. Would he be better or worse had he not left Southampton when he did. It is hard to say, but I recall him scoring two goals for the U-21s about six months after joining Arsenal which were carbon copies of that Terry Henry lad's goals.

I dont know what the answer is tbh either way, but to say either is clearly right or wrong is quite a leap.
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  #131  
Old 11-03-2009, 08:18 PM
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Walcott. I do agree in general with what you're saying though.
Pretty sure Redknapp didn't 'bring through' Walcott.
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  #132  
Old 11-03-2009, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst
The Manchester United and Arsenal youth policies would suggest otherwise, be it homegrown or brought in at 15. Beckham, Fabregas, Scholes, Gerrard, G Neville spring immediatelly to mind.

The interesting one is Walcott. Would he be better or worse had he not left Southampton when he did. It is hard to say, but I recall him scoring two goals for the U-21s about six months after joining Arsenal which were carbon copies of that Terry Henry lad's goals.

I dont know what the answer is tbh either way, but to say either is clearly right or wrong is quite a leap.
I suppose you're right - however, ManYoo and Arsenal have a good record of bringing through their best youngsters. Spuds don't, maybe that's the most important point?
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  #133  
Old 11-03-2009, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by budgie
Sorry, this is why I tend to disregard everything you ever say about Palace and Jordan, you are simply too blind regarding anything Jordan is involved in.
Because i choose to beleive people who have not been proved liars over people who we know have been?
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  #134  
Old 11-03-2009, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle101
I suppose you're right - however, ManYoo and Arsenal have a good record of bringing through their best youngsters. Spuds don't, maybe that's the most important point?
Maybe not their own yougsters but they do try to bring through young players.

A year or so ago they had 4 or 5 of the England U21s i think.
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  #135  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst
The Manchester United and Arsenal youth policies would suggest otherwise, be it homegrown or brought in at 15. Beckham, Fabregas, Scholes, Gerrard, G Neville spring immediatelly to mind.

The interesting one is Walcott. Would he be better or worse had he not left Southampton when he did. It is hard to say, but I recall him scoring two goals for the U-21s about six months after joining Arsenal which were carbon copies of that Terry Henry lad's goals.

I dont know what the answer is tbh either way, but to say either is clearly right or wrong is quite a leap.
But the players you have listed were all playing for first teams by the age of 17ish. For Bostock, that is just round the corner and he looks a mile of being involved in the first team set-up.

As you say, Walcott is interesting. Although its hard to call, it doesn't really seem that he has progressed a huge amount. But then he has been injured for a long time and he did give a very good performance for England against Croatia, so maybe I'm being harsh. But then whos to say that if he had been playing regularly for Southampton for an extra year, this would not have happened?

It is certain that it is not black and white. It is also certain that all players respond differently to situations. Some will enjoy being challenged whilst others may thrive on being a big fish in a small pond.

One things for sure though, Bostock is a cock
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  #136  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo
Because i choose to beleive people who have not been proved liars over people who we know have been?
John Bostock has been proven to be a liar too though. Whilst he was only 15 he nailed himself to to the Palace cross and made this very public. And yet a few months later he completely disassociated himself from us. I find it strange that you would be so quick to believe this over our chairman who whether you like it or not, loves the club even if he doesn't love football.
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  #137  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:28 AM
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On their debut....
Beckham was 17
Scholes was 19 10months
Neville was 17 1/2
Fabregas was 16
Gerrard was 18

For Palace Bostock was 15, for Spurs he was 16, most of the above were a year or so older when they started regular football in teh top flight. Beckham for example went off to Preston on loan between his debut and making the mnaure starting 11 regularly.
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  #138  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva
John Bostock has been proven to be a liar too though. Whilst he was only 15 he nailed himself to to the Palace cross and made this very public. And yet a few months later he completely disassociated himself from us. I find it strange that you would be so quick to believe this over our chairman who whether you like it or not, loves the club even if he doesn't love football.
He said he wanted to be our youngest ever player, he said he wanted to captain us and he said he anted to play football. He was then told he would not play without signing a contract which was not liked by all accounts, basically blackmail. If he felt he was unlikely to play much and or in a side that suits him then he has not gone back on his word, it is what he wanted but it was not going to happen.

As for the chairman the list of his lies gets longer every year, from we will not change shirts every year as it is unfair to teh fans (his first year at the club) to i have been a cleve sausage and bought the ground and even teh coup that was a shirt sponsorship deal with nike which unravelled before his eyes as fans realised we were buying off the peg kits.
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:37 AM
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Isn't Bostock Spurs youngest ever player to play for their first team.
While it think it will give hime less opportunitties initially it will be a while before we know if it was the right move for him. Its time to move on.
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Old 13-03-2009, 03:50 PM
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