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  #101  
Old 11-09-2019, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Cambridge Eagle View Post
Of course it's the whole "recess" as the reason it was called was to avoid parliamentary scrutiny and the government misled the monarch.

Boris and govt ministers now avoid parliamentary committees and any scrutiny. MPs cannot hold the government to account and make them provide updates on things like no deal planning or the progress of talks. They also have shit loads of legislation that is required to get through in advance of leaving.

Usually parliament has to vote to break up for conferences. The prorogation avoided this vote and there was a real possibility that they would have cancelled or delayed conferences so parliament could continue to sit in the run up to 31 October.

It's pretty clear the prorogation was to avoid any scrutiny and no wonder given how shambolic (even by recent standards) Johnson and his government have been just in one week back in the commons. If he has misled the Queen (which he has) and is found to have done so by the supreme court I can't see how he can continue as PM. I mean I can see how he would try but it would be morally bankrupt to do so and set a very dangerous precedent.
As I understand it the recess dates were already agreed (which is about the same time every year) before Boris requested an extension in order to finalise the queens speech for the new session of Parliament. Bearing in mind that the house has been sitting for longer than normal (about two years one of the longest in recent times)

Now you may say that the completion of the queens speech was just a tactic to run down the clock ahead of October 31st, but I would not comment on that.

If Boris broke the law then the queen must be in on the plot as can you honestly say her advisors would have allowed her to sign off the extension if they believed she would be implicated in a plot to deceive parliament! They either felt that the extension was warranted or the Palace is full of "Leavers" including her Maj!!!

Going back to the issue of the recess for the conference season was not already agreed. Hardly likely even if not published, as each party would not have gone to the large expense of booking conference facilities and hotels at the risk of the dates not being firmed up
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Last edited by Percy Dalton; 11-09-2019 at 04:18 PM.
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  #102  
Old 11-09-2019, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Percy Dalton View Post
If Boris broke the law then the queen must be in on the plot as can you honestly say her advisors would have allowed her to sign off the extension of they believed she would be implicated in a plot to receive parliament!
There are questions to be asked of the advice the monarch was given to be sure.

[BBC]
The Court of Session does not criticise the Queen's decision to prorogue Parliament at Boris Johnson's request; it rules on the advice the Prime Minister gave the Queen. But the ruling raises questions for the Palace and the constitutional role of the Queen.

Although the Queen was expected to grant the prorogation - there was precedent for suspending parliament before the Queen's Speech, and she acts on the advice of her ministers - she is not simply a rubber stamp for the government of the day.

How well was the Queen advised? Should the Palace have pushed Downing Street harder as to the reasons for the prorogation? The Queen has been drawn into the Brexit mire, and the questions now go to the heart of her constitutional role.

If she has no discretion at all over prorogation, what is her constitutional purpose? If she has discretion, when would she use it? Traditionally politicians step very carefully around these issues so as not embarrass the Queen and upset the constitutional order. But these are far from traditional times.

To say however that 'she must be in on the plot' is the height of Brexiter idiocy.
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  #103  
Old 11-09-2019, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Percy Dalton View Post
As I understand it the recess dates were already agreed (which is about the same time every year) before Boris requested an extension in order to finalise the queens speech for the new session of Parliament. Bearing in mind that the house has been sitting for longer than normal (about two years one of the longest in recent times)

Now you may say that the completion of the queens speech was just a tactic to run down the clock ahead of October 31st, but I would not comment on that.

If Boris broke the law then the queen must be in on the plot as can you honestly say her advisors would have allowed her to sign off the extension if they believed she would be implicated in a plot to deceive parliament! They either felt that the extension was warranted or the Palace is full of "Leavers" including her Maj!!!

Going back to the issue of the recess for the conference season was not already agreed. Hardly likely even if not published, as each party would not have gone to the large expense of booking conference facilities and hotels at the risk of the dates not being firmed up
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  #104  
Old 11-09-2019, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Percy Dalton View Post

Now you may say that the completion of the queens speech was just a tactic to run down the clock ahead of October 31st, but I would not comment on that.
But the Scottish Judges did. Less of a tactic than a downright lie, is what they said.
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  #105  
Old 11-09-2019, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Percy Dalton View Post
As I understand it the recess dates were already agreed (which is about the same time every year) before Boris requested an extension in order to finalise the queens speech for the new session of Parliament. Bearing in mind that the house has been sitting for longer than normal (about two years one of the longest in recent times)

Now you may say that the completion of the queens speech was just a tactic to run down the clock ahead of October 31st, but I would not comment on that.

If Boris broke the law then the queen must be in on the plot as can you honestly say her advisors would have allowed her to sign off the extension if they believed she would be implicated in a plot to deceive parliament! They either felt that the extension was warranted or the Palace is full of "Leavers" including her Maj!!!

Going back to the issue of the recess for the conference season was not already agreed. Hardly likely even if not published, as each party would not have gone to the large expense of booking conference facilities and hotels at the risk of the dates not being firmed up
Court: it was illegal
Percy: it's all fine
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  #106  
Old 11-09-2019, 04:56 PM
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I dont know the legalities of this one but they have until 11pm to provide the information Grieve asked for in his humble address motion
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  #107  
Old 11-09-2019, 04:57 PM
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Does Grieve want Brexit with a deal or does he not want Brexit full stop?
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  #108  
Old 11-09-2019, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
So same old tory approach, hard on crimes (committed by the poor) light touch to the causes of crime (caused by disparity).
I dunno, lying to Her Maj is pretty bad, he might get in a spot of bother on this one. Anyone know what the legal penalty is?
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  #109  
Old 11-09-2019, 05:32 PM
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I dunno, lying to Her Maj is pretty bad, he might get in a spot of bother on this one. Anyone know what the legal penalty is?
Treason and sent to the Tower?
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  #110  
Old 11-09-2019, 05:35 PM
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Court: it was illegal
Percy: it's all fine

EFA


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
Scottish Court: it was illegal
English Court: it's all fine
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  #111  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:06 PM
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EFA
What would our leaders have to do for you to admit that something shady was going on? Will you forgive them almost anything, as long as you get Brexit?
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  #112  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
Does Grieve want Brexit with a deal or does he not want Brexit full stop?
He has consistently voted for May’s deal, from memory - that said I expect he’s a remainer. Seems the type.
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  #113  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:11 PM
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Lawyers have written to Government

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Parliament is apparently not prorogued pending Supreme Court decision.
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  #114  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GorBlimey View Post
EFA
If you're going to do that, at least get it right.

English court: we dont think we have jurisdiction but it's going to the Supreme Court. We didnt say it's all fine.
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  #115  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellavista View Post
What would our leaders have to do for you to admit that something shady was going on? Will you forgive them almost anything, as long as you get Brexit?
The same people who seem fine with it would be purple with rage if Corbyn lied to the Queen to shut Parliament to avoid its scrutiny
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  #116  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:35 PM
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I've been watching 'The Rise of the Nazis' on BBC and it reminded me a bit of Boris and Cummings
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  #117  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellavista View Post
What would our leaders have to do for you to admit that something shady was going on? Will you forgive them almost anything, as long as you get Brexit?

The court isn't going to rule on motivation of politicians as the English court has already said:


"The prime minister’s decision that parliament should be prorogued at the time and for the duration chosen and the advice given to Her Majesty to do so in the present case were political. They were inherently political in nature and there are no legal standards against which to judge their legitimacy.”

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  #118  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:38 PM
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EFA
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  #119  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by GorBlimey View Post
The court isn't going to rule on motivation of politicians as the English court has already said:


"The prime minister’s decision that parliament should be prorogued at the time and for the duration chosen and the advice given to Her Majesty to do so in the present case were political. They were inherently political in nature and there are no legal standards against which to judge their legitimacy.”

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That wasn't the question, was it?
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  #120  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:54 PM
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This is all going down well in the DM comments.



I refuse to believe that’s from the DM ... nobody said wibble wibble.
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