Home | Forums | Gallery | Twitter
 
CPFC BBS  

Go Back   CPFC BBS Ľ Off Topic Ľ The Politics Forum

Notices

The Politics Forum Discussions that are wholly or mainly concerned with UK politics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #9841  
Old 04-05-2021, 05:50 PM
Maz's Avatar
Maz Maz is offline
Semper Idem
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: A place where nothing ever happens.
Posts: 163,859
Rep Power: 21474855
Maz has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipw View Post
Agreed. By that i meant the Labour left who were in denial. John MacDonald repeated it the other day on the Peston show, ie only lost the election because of brexit
YEs, it's a shame about McDonnell ; there was a lot of good in him but he lost touch with reality a bit.
__________________
..
..G
abba Gabba Hey

.פɐppɐ פɐppɐ Hǝʎ


Reply With Quote
  #9842  
Old 04-05-2021, 06:11 PM
legaleagle2 legaleagle2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,948
Rep Power: 21474840
legaleagle2 Sam the man is herelegaleagle2 Sam the man is herelegaleagle2 Sam the man is herelegaleagle2 Sam the man is herelegaleagle2 Sam the man is herelegaleagle2 Sam the man is herelegaleagle2 Sam the man is herelegaleagle2 Sam the man is herelegaleagle2 Sam the man is herelegaleagle2 Sam the man is herelegaleagle2 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
FOM was the core issue for me, although I also thought it better to fight in the EU. Percy talks about the barriers to change which of course exist, but no more than the U.K. state, in fact less so. And I think international coordination is the only way workers will get change of any fundamental significance.

But if FOM could have been achieved by ďLexitĒ then I would have been in favour given the damage the remain position did, but as Alders has pointed out that probably wouldnít have worked either.

The real issue labour had was it had no clear position ever. I think a left wing remain position could have worked in the referendum and even afterwards.

But Iíve never said electorability means nothing, have I. Itís just what red lines youíll put down or how much youíll look the other way even if something is wrong.
The basic reason 'leave' won the referendum and the majority of its (continuing) supporters want/ed it was to cut back on FOM and keep Johnny Euro Foreigner out....
Reply With Quote
  #9843  
Old 04-05-2021, 06:11 PM
meee meee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9,628
Rep Power: 21474845
meee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipw View Post
Werenít a lot of people saying that the Tory red wall votes were purely Brexit driven and normality will return when it was delivered? Seems not to be the case if these polls are to be believed. Have always believed that, whilst one of the major factors, the public did not just vote only on brexit in 2019. I know loads of people who voted Tory (and were remain) and others (but fewer) Labour/leave.
One of those factors being shit centrist MPs who have done nothing for anyone in 30+ years, one of them standing for councillor this time around. Labour will keep losing until it gets rid of these idiots.
Reply With Quote
  #9844  
Old 04-05-2021, 06:30 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lewisham
Posts: 21,165
Rep Power: 21474853
cockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle2 View Post
The basic reason 'leave' won the referendum and the majority of its (continuing) supporters want/ed it was to cut back on FOM and keep Johnny Euro Foreigner out....
Indeed and the myths that a lot of the pro brexit side spread about immigration needed to be challenged, and the remain campaign, far from challenging them, actually went along with them in many cases.

There needed to be a left wing remain answer that could stress the advantages of FOM and workers being able to come together.

The People's Vote was a useless centrist campaign.
Reply With Quote
  #9845  
Old 04-05-2021, 06:47 PM
Maz's Avatar
Maz Maz is offline
Semper Idem
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: A place where nothing ever happens.
Posts: 163,859
Rep Power: 21474855
Maz has disabled reputation
You have to stop using 'centrist' as a swear word. Just write ******.
__________________
..
..G
abba Gabba Hey

.פɐppɐ פɐppɐ Hǝʎ


Reply With Quote
  #9846  
Old 04-05-2021, 06:49 PM
radiomike radiomike is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: cheam
Posts: 1,010
Rep Power: 21041840
radiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
YEs, it's a shame about McDonnell ; there was a lot of good in him but he lost touch with reality a bit.
There still is as he campaigns for a decent rise for nurses as opposed to the weasel comments of nandy and starmer who stick at 2 and a half%
The trouble with the reality you mention is that it is the mainstream media sense of reality which is a hard right view of reality which any principled labour politician should vehemently oppose. Keir is more concerned to placate the daily mail and co hence his current difficulties
Reply With Quote
  #9847  
Old 04-05-2021, 06:59 PM
west country boy's Avatar
west country boy west country boy is offline
jft39
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 62,770
Rep Power: 21474857
west country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiomike View Post
There still is as he campaigns for a decent rise for nurses as opposed to the weasel comments of nandy and starmer who stick at 2 and a half%
The trouble with the reality you mention is that it is the mainstream media sense of reality which is a hard right view of reality which any principled labour politician should vehemently oppose. Keir is more concerned to placate the daily mail and co hence his current difficulties
You forgot to mention "apartheid Israel".
__________________
thos. hardy wanks tramps
Reply With Quote
  #9848  
Old 04-05-2021, 07:03 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lewisham
Posts: 21,165
Rep Power: 21474853
cockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by west country boy View Post
You forgot to mention "apartheid Israel".
Yeah it was like when people kept banging on about apartheid South Africa all the time. Did my head in.
Reply With Quote
  #9849  
Old 04-05-2021, 07:58 PM
west country boy's Avatar
west country boy west country boy is offline
jft39
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 62,770
Rep Power: 21474857
west country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is herewest country boy Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Yeah it was like when people kept banging on about apartheid South Africa all the time. Did my head in.
You forgot to mention Pinochet and Kashmir.
__________________
thos. hardy wanks tramps
Reply With Quote
  #9850  
Old 04-05-2021, 08:01 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lewisham
Posts: 21,165
Rep Power: 21474853
cockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by west country boy View Post
You forgot to mention Pinochet and Kashmir.
Terrible people mentioning international issues.
Reply With Quote
  #9851  
Old 04-05-2021, 08:15 PM
Philipw Philipw is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,396
Rep Power: 9451496
Philipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by meee View Post
One of those factors being shit centrist MPs who have done nothing for anyone in 30+ years, one of them standing for councillor this time around. Labour will keep losing until it gets rid of these idiots.
were they to blame for losing so badly in 2019 too?
Reply With Quote
  #9852  
Old 04-05-2021, 08:18 PM
Heb 7:4's Avatar
Heb 7:4 Heb 7:4 is offline
Its gonna be a lovely day
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 49,878
Rep Power: 21474854
Heb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by meee View Post
It is the best number we have available. He said that anyone downplaying the level of anti semitism in the Labour party has no place in it, in reference to a comment about that number.

Angela Rayner also said that she would personally expel members of the Labour party who do not agree with her opinion on anti semitism, which contradicts the EHRC report, which I fully support.

So again, I have no place.
That is extremely disingenuous. It was a number extrapolated from claims made by Jennie Formby. Channel 4 did a fact check on it and found Corbyn had no way of knowing.

So no, it isnít the best number we have available. Itís a false claim made by those who were guilty of fostering, ignoring and excusing antisemitism in the Labour Party.

Labour needs to kick the bigots out. A poison which has infected the party.
Reply With Quote
  #9853  
Old 04-05-2021, 10:39 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lewisham
Posts: 21,165
Rep Power: 21474853
cockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
That is extremely disingenuous. It was a number extrapolated from claims made by Jennie Formby. Channel 4 did a fact check on it and found Corbyn had no way of knowing.

So no, it isnít the best number we have available. Itís a false claim made by those who were guilty of fostering, ignoring and excusing antisemitism in the Labour Party.

Labour needs to kick the bigots out. A poison which has infected the party.
Only the bigots that you donít like of course. Your bigots, the kind that put tens of thousands of asylum seekers in prison. Theyíre ok. As is the current one who sweeps bigotry under the carpet. That poison youíre ok with.
Reply With Quote
  #9854  
Old 04-05-2021, 11:12 PM
Hong Kong Eagle's Avatar
Hong Kong Eagle Hong Kong Eagle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Age: 63
Posts: 869
Rep Power: 8942273
Hong Kong Eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHong Kong Eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHong Kong Eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHong Kong Eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHong Kong Eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHong Kong Eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHong Kong Eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHong Kong Eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHong Kong Eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHong Kong Eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHong Kong Eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Starmer has said he will " take full responsibility " for the Hartlepool result.

Apart from a defeatist attitude, what does " take full responsibility " mean in practice.

A well worn phrase used by politicians of all sides but never seems to result in any accountability.

Sturgeon when called out on SNP policy failures in areas of drug deaths and education usually says something like this as if it makes it all ok.
__________________
COYP
Reply With Quote
  #9855  
Old 05-05-2021, 05:23 AM
N Herts Eagle N Herts Eagle is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Poole Dorset
Age: 65
Posts: 11,961
Rep Power: 21474856
N Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Only the bigots that you don’t like of course. Your bigots, the kind that put tens of thousands of asylum seekers in prison. They’re ok. As is the current one who sweeps bigotry under the carpet. That poison you’re ok with.
Whilst the bigitory and racism within Labour under Corbyn was ignored by you and others for years. I know the response what you did unfortunately there remains a chasm between what you and I would agree is acceptable. The latest poll had something like 49% of Labour membership still thinking Israel is an aparthied state. With some 69% denying there was any problem.

To view the link you have to Register or Login

It should be commendable to have Labour and the membership taking views on the issues facing the world. With Israel it shows nothing other than further proof that Labour should be nowhere near power. I think antisemitism played only a small part in Labours defeat it plays a bigger part when discussing the suitability of Corbyn and many on the left. Both the candidates you mentioned have there own history in the racism of hate.

Last edited by N Herts Eagle; 05-05-2021 at 05:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9856  
Old 05-05-2021, 05:35 AM
RazorsEdge's Avatar
RazorsEdge RazorsEdge is offline
I am a Bad Man
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Croydon
Posts: 9,921
Rep Power: 21474847
RazorsEdge has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
That is extremely disingenuous. It was a number extrapolated from claims made by Jennie Formby. Channel 4 did a fact check on it and found Corbyn had no way of knowing.

So no, it isnít the best number we have available. Itís a false claim made by those who were guilty of fostering, ignoring and excusing antisemitism in the Labour Party.

Labour needs to kick the bigots out. A poison which has infected the party.
Yup, agree
Reply With Quote
  #9857  
Old 05-05-2021, 06:58 AM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lewisham
Posts: 21,165
Rep Power: 21474853
cockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
Whilst the bigitory and racism within Labour under Corbyn was ignored by you and others for years. I know the response what you did unfortunately there remains a chasm between what you and I would agree is acceptable. The latest poll had something like 49% of Labour membership still thinking Israel is an aparthied state. With some 69% denying there was any problem.

To view the link you have to Register or Login

It should be commendable to have Labour and the membership taking views on the issues facing the world. With Israel it shows nothing other than further proof that Labour should be nowhere near power. I think antisemitism played only a small part in Labours defeat it plays a bigger part when discussing the suitability of Corbyn and many on the left. Both the candidates you mentioned have there own history in the racism of hate.
And as I said you supported politics that led to tens of thousands of asylum seekers put in prison. Your own disgusting bigotry you sweep under the carpet. And of course there are your views on vile dictators. Don’t play the moral high ground, your views are in a cesspit.
Reply With Quote
  #9858  
Old 05-05-2021, 07:18 AM
SE25 exile's Avatar
SE25 exile SE25 exile is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: on a small island with too many small minds.
Posts: 24,726
Rep Power: 21474857
SE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
And as I said you supported politics that led to tens of thousands of asylum seekers put in prison. Your own disgusting bigotry you sweep under the carpet. And of course there are your views on vile dictators. Donít play the moral high ground, your views are in a cesspit.
Thought I would post this, as it has a different take on your point and Blair back in 1997 from a new book.

The book damns Blair, but for a different reason to yours. Its almost completely opposite to your point. Yes it is the Express, but it is reviewing the book that is looking at Blair from his alleged encouragement of immigration and asylum seeking. The allegation is that actively encouraged immigration for political advantage. The explanation is in this link:

To view the link you have to Register or Login
Reply With Quote
  #9859  
Old 05-05-2021, 07:25 AM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lewisham
Posts: 21,165
Rep Power: 21474853
cockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
Thought I would post this, as it has a different take on your point and Blair back in 1997 from a new book.

The book damns Blair, but for a different reason to yours. Its almost completely opposite to your point. Yes it is the Express, but it is reviewing the book that is looking at Blair from his alleged encouragement of immigration and asylum seeking. The allegation is that actively encouraged immigration for political advantage. The explanation is in this link:

To view the link you have to Register or Login
It changes nothing to the point that Blair’s government started the hostile environment policy and put tens of thousands of asylum seekers in prison for no other crime than being asylum seekers. It then banned their children from state schools so they had to go to prison schools.
Reply With Quote
  #9860  
Old 05-05-2021, 07:48 AM
SE25 exile's Avatar
SE25 exile SE25 exile is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: on a small island with too many small minds.
Posts: 24,726
Rep Power: 21474857
SE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
It changes nothing to the point that Blairís government started the hostile environment policy and put tens of thousands of asylum seekers in prison for no other crime than being asylum seekers. It then banned their children from state schools so they had to go to prison schools.
I am no apologist for Blair as you know, and despise him as much as I do Johnson, but he did not invent locking up asylum seekers. It was an established practice long before Blair became PM. This does not excuse him of course, but the picture of him that you paint and use to support your views on Starmer and his advocates, I think is not a fair criticism of what you perceive as centrists today. Blair in my view, had one important trait to be a successful leader. He possessed the ruthlessness that is required to win and keep winning. He was eventually undone by errors of judgement, perhaps because he started believing, like Johnson, he was untouchable. The term Teflon Tony was not a misnomer.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.