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General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum.

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  #17201  
Old 08-02-2019, 10:31 AM
Celestial Empire Celestial Empire is offline
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Originally Posted by sw16girl View Post
Sainsburys will not have life made difficult for them by CPFCs architects - they OWN THE LAND. No agreement with Sainsburys - no stand. Even if we get the Planning Permission that does not give the Club the right to build on land that does not belong to it. A CPO could be made but that could be expensive and also a lengthy procedure

Whether the store stays open or closes makes little difference to the value of the land as the land is not part of the current store. I would hope that it stays open because if it does then there may be something that can be offered to them by way of improvements to encourage them to sell the land. If it shuts then they will only want the most money they can get for the land and there will not be other sweetners available.
But they may find it pretty hard to sell the plot with the stand planning approval hanging over it, without making a deal with Palace. Or, if they sell the store as a going concern (say, to the Co-op), the new owner might be much more amenable to a deal.
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  #17202  
Old 08-02-2019, 10:36 AM
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Source?

(Not that I doubt it, mind you.)
More fool you. The bloke is a serial attention seeker.
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  #17203  
Old 08-02-2019, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Celestial Empire View Post
But they may find it pretty hard to sell the plot with the stand planning approval hanging over it, without making a deal with Palace. Or, if they sell the store as a going concern (say, to the Co-op), the new owner might be much more amenable to a deal.
Why would they sell the land if they sold the store? The store carpark would probably be sold with it but not the main carpark which is not part of the store. There are two separate bits of land here

a. The Store and front carpark and garage. This may be sold or kept if Sainsburys re-organise but it does not impact on the Stand as such. Sainsburys own the freehold so it would be unaffected by the Stand development other than the usual problem of being next door to a development - however that is not going to be something that can be changed if the development is going ahead

b. The rear carpark. Owned by Sainsbury's and let to the club. Presumable bought by Sainsburys as "landbank" in case they were ever allowed to expand or simply as an investment which they could sell for an profit. I cannot see why they would sell that to any new owner of the store or why any new owner would want to buy it particularly in view of the move towards smaller stores.

Planning makes little difference - in fact having the planning in place would probably make the land worth more on a sale because any buyer would know they had someone desperate to buy the land.

I am sure the club had a specific tactic in mind when pressing on with the planning application without owning all the land (and that may be a CPO as a last resort) but it is not the usual way to proceed. Once land has planning granted on it it becomes worth more simply because it has a defined future use which will make money.

Usually a developer will enter into agreements with landowners that are legally watertight before putting in any applications. precisely to make sure that they can proceed with the development when planning has been granted and to make sure that they cannot be held to ransom by the owner of land. However other football clubs have proceeded in this way as well so presumably they feel that a CPO would finally be granted if absolutely necessary.

Its all down to money - what is that land worth? Are the club prepared to pay what Sainsburys are asking. If not would a CPO actually say they had to buy it for less. Hopefully, but we do not know the figures or the arguments so cannot say
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Last edited by sw16girl; 08-02-2019 at 01:25 PM.
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  #17204  
Old 08-02-2019, 11:57 AM
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If it were that unlikely to happen I doubt that Parish would talk about getting it done so often in interviews. It must take loads of work behind the scenes to make it happen, just hope we don't get relegated before it starts.
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  #17205  
Old 08-02-2019, 12:39 PM
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People still think this will happen?
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  #17206  
Old 08-02-2019, 07:06 PM
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Off the pitch, there is also much to be excited about. We are working hard on the finer points of the Main Stand redevelopment

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  #17207  
Old 08-02-2019, 07:44 PM
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Off the pitch, there is also much to be excited about. We are working hard on the finer points of the Main Stand redevelopment

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Exactly, he wouldn't keep going on about it if he wasn't determined to get it done. We wouldn't be employing Guy Wickett for example, or spent a million quid thus far on plans and the planning process.


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Originally Posted by CP Satellite View Post
Don't shoot the messenger as I heard this third party, the club met the residents of Wooderson Close in the past week about their relocation, it appears it is going ahead, how soon, not clear - 2020 was mentioned as a start date, so guessing new property still has to be acquired/built. Seems plans are moving ahead, probably not as quick as we would like, but sounds positive to me - without knowing the full details.
Very likely that Palace are moving stuff along out of the general public glare.
They haven't tied up with Sterling Rose Homes for no reason for example.
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  #17208  
Old 08-02-2019, 11:24 PM
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Given that ownership of land is not required to make a planning application and to have it granted, is there an enterprising soul who would enjoy submitting an application to demolish the Amex?
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  #17209  
Old 08-02-2019, 11:35 PM
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If it is going to be 10 years, I might as well give up my dream of ever sitting in it for a game.

Unless they have perfected that Star Trek Transporter by then.
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  #17210  
Old 08-02-2019, 11:39 PM
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If it is going to be 10 years, I might as well give up my dream of ever sitting in it for a game.

Unless they have perfected that Star Trek Transporter by then.

I still think 2024 will be the target date.
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  #17211  
Old 09-02-2019, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dorking .Eagle View Post
Exactly, he wouldn't keep going on about it if he wasn't determined to get it done. We wouldn't be employing Guy Wickett for example, or spent a million quid thus far on plans and the planning process.




Very likely that Palace are moving stuff along out of the general public glare.
They haven't tied up with Sterling Rose Homes for no reason for example.
Yeah. It seems I've spent half a life wrestling with know-all, imagination-free corporate lawyers - hired to find legal solutions and ensure everything is above board, but relentlessly negative, always telling why you can't do things, very, very, rarely coming up with a creative solution. God only knows why they command extortionate salaries.
It's the entrepreneurs like SP, who have the tenacity and imagination to find "impossible" solutions. Exhibit A: buying the club and ground for a realistic fee, when the wiseacres swore it was impossible.
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  #17212  
Old 09-02-2019, 01:06 AM
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Enough talking... in the words of Nike... "Just Do It".

If the bulldozers turn up Monday and start work, is anyone going to actually stop them? And if so how? Some jobsworth?
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  #17213  
Old 09-02-2019, 01:15 AM
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Enough talking... in the words of Nike... "Just Do It".

If the bulldozers turn up Monday and start work, is anyone going to actually stop them? And if so how? Some jobsworth?

LOL


I think there would be more lawyers engaged to stop any works than were working on Jeff Bezos' divorce.


Patience is a virtue after all.
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  #17214  
Old 09-02-2019, 01:21 AM
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Patience is a virtue after all.
Lawyer v bulldozer... no contest.

My patience has flown the coop!

And who would the lawyers be working for? Not Palace... the sight of their fees might open some doors.
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  #17215  
Old 09-02-2019, 08:52 AM
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Enough talking... in the words of Nike... "Just Do It".

If the bulldozers turn up Monday and start work, is anyone going to actually stop them? And if so how? Some jobsworth?
For those with very long memories there used to be a To view the link you have to Register or Login. Went past it one night but next morning there was a giant ball dozer sitting on a pile of rubble. There was a bit of a fuss but it was gone.

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Old 09-02-2019, 09:24 AM
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I think we'll be in our new stand before Spurs are in theirs!
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  #17217  
Old 09-02-2019, 09:39 AM
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I have my own land and planning consultancy.
My understanding is
The club are actively promoting a 2020 start.
Residents affected are being relocated and I think that agreement may be in place.
No such agreement has been reached with Sainsbury's but who are under no illusions that the council will cpo the site and reduce the value of their land as a result.
Bit of brinkmanship but expect an agreement to be reached.
What I'm struggling to comprehend is why the section 106 planning agreement appears to be rumbling on........
I don't expect to take up my seat in any new stand until earliest start of season 2023

Last edited by theCoach; 09-02-2019 at 09:44 AM.
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  #17218  
Old 10-02-2019, 05:28 PM
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I have my own land and planning consultancy.
My understanding is
The club are actively promoting a 2020 start.
Residents affected are being relocated and I think that agreement may be in place.
No such agreement has been reached with Sainsbury's but who are under no illusions that the council will cpo the site and reduce the value of their land as a result.
Bit of brinkmanship but expect an agreement to be reached.
What I'm struggling to comprehend is why the section 106 planning agreement appears to be rumbling on........
I don't expect to take up my seat in any new stand until earliest start of season 2023
On a CPO Sainsburys are entitled to the value of their land whether it is a CPO or a private sale. The only argument seems to be about what their land is worth. Unlike small businesses and individual owners who might not be able to fight against a too low valuation Sainsburys will fight it if the Council go in too low.

I think your timings are about right though
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  #17219  
Old 10-02-2019, 05:36 PM
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The saddest thing is in all likelihood if it is 2023/24 season we may well be relegated in that time. We keep rolling this cutting it close thing we keep doing one time or another we're going to have a bad finish instead of our usual good one.
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  #17220  
Old 21-02-2019, 07:40 AM
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Interesting to note that Sainsbury's proposed merger with Asda has been knocked back by the Govt. Competition and Marketing Authority - with question marks hanging over Sainsbury's financial strategy if their appeal fails as seems likely from recent reports.

Wether this impacts on Palace's negotations with Sainsbury's over the 'ransom' site that seens to be the main sticking point currently holding up the go ahead of our new Main Stand - there must be doubts over the viablility of the long term future for Sainsbury's stores in general, let alone at Selhurst Park?
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