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  #16201  
Old 19-04-2018, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Old Joe Paxton View Post
There’s about 20 to 40 houses there surely. Tad expensive.

It was newsto me they couldn’t build a higher stand in Arthur Waite: going to make a fully developed stadium impossible. Like a Ferrari and three Ladas. Or a Lada (Arthur) and two Ford Mondeos (The two ends) if you like. The Arthur at least will look ludicrous in comparison to new stand. Still SP knows what he’s doing and has plans no doubt.
I hear you, but I did note from the planning officers report, that a £10,000 fund was one of the recommendations/conditions to create a masterplan for the local area, for future development.

This could include that type of scheme, and considering some of the language used regarding Sainsbury's objections, I get the impression that the council are now behind a Stadium first development of the local area, similar to the surround of the Anfield development plan.

Last edited by S.P.R.; 19-04-2018 at 10:42 PM.
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  #16202  
Old 19-04-2018, 10:48 PM
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I attended the planning meeting where it was stated that it could not be webcast live due to the pre-election period and some reporting restrictions would apply but it would be available after the election. This could be seen as convenient as the 2 main recent developments of Selhurst Park and the development of 3 tower blocks in Cherry Orchard Road with a connecting footbridge to East Croydon Station were both passed with relatively minor objections.
Several representatives of CPFC were present including Steve Parish who gave a clearly emotional address to the committee in support of the plan. Indeed he took up the whole of the 5 minutes allocated for the 4 potential speakers in support.
The main areas of concern for the councillors were clear plans for the management of car parking and promotion of a comprehensive travel plan to encourage the use of public transport or alternatives to car travel. The concept of a joint match and travel ticket was however found to be unworkable following discussions with TFL.
The councillors wanted to ensure that Section 106 commitments to investment in community projects and travel improvements were also fulfilled with the costs of any resident parking scheme being cost neutral for local residents. They were keen to see a potential investment in step free access at Norwood Junction but the club were not willing to make this commitment as it was part of the potential revision by Network Rail of the mainline infrastructure and the new stand and this improvement were not co-dependant. The club currently have committed to a £100,000 bond to be used towards the improvement of local walkways and cycle paths approaching the ground and local stations but the council were keen that this may need to be doubled and would be subject to possible negotiation. Councillors were also keen that the London living wage was applied to all employees including temporary match-day staff and construction workers.
No mention was made to the numbers of the written comments or details of the specific objections. Objectors and supporters were given a total of 5 minutes each to state their cases and 3 objectors spoke. One was the resident of 20 Wooderson Close, which is the last house to remain, and he was concerned about the structural integrity of his house but he also praised the club for their involvement with the local residents. Another resident complained about the potential extra traffic and parking problems but when the area is already saturated I cannot see how any extra traffic would be able to park. The last resident association member spoke about concerns over the post-match crowd controls and transport plans. A local councillor spoke of concerns over the energy efficiency of the structure and lack of carbon offset.
The club stated that once approved they would instigate a robust 5 year travel plan which could include CCTV, wayfinding, crowd control stewarding and even the possible supply of Portaloos on routes to the stations. The creation of an Energy Centre in the mainly residential area was considered not viable and the nature of the use of the stand with high energy consumption over a short period about 25 times a year made carbon offset difficult.
The Chief Planning Officer praised it as an excellent scheme and outlined benefits to local businesses and even the potential for residents to rent out their frontage for parking.He also praised the club for there negotiations with the council during the planning procedure and their involvement with local residents since the original launch of plans.
The vote was then carried unanimously by the committee and the whole process took about 1½ hours.
It brings home the fact that the area's local transport infrastructure probably couldn't support a stadium much bigger than what we currently propose unless radical improvements happen. We might have reached an approximate ceiling to the kind of crowds we could service given these constraints. Should we ever get to the stage where we were bringing in 40,000+ fans per match, we might have to relocate completely.
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  #16203  
Old 19-04-2018, 10:49 PM
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Congratulations to Steve Parish, CPFC and South London.
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  #16204  
Old 19-04-2018, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SOUTHGATE EAGLE View Post
It brings home the fact that the area's local transport infrastructure probably couldn't support a stadium much bigger than what we currently propose unless radical improvements happen. We might have reached an approximate ceiling to the kind of crowds we could service given these constraints. Should we ever get to the stage where we were bringing in 40,000+ fans per match, we might have to relocate completely.
Good point, but anybody over 40 won't be having sleepless nights over it.
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  #16205  
Old 19-04-2018, 10:57 PM
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The club also put forward potential plans for the development of 9 residential properties at the rear of the Holmesdale Road Stand. These would replace the existing single floor structures behind the stand. These would be 3 or 4 bedroom maisonettes consisting of 2 floors and would reach as high as the current arched windows with a street level entrance towards the Park Road end of the Stand with a separated access walkway along the front. Thus the lower entrances to the Holmesdale Stand would pass under this walkway. The curve from the new Main Stand would continue round to give it an integrated appearance but a void at the rear would separate them from the main structure of the Stand.

The Councillors were very impressed by the development and praised its innovative design.

These would not however be available for the displaced residents of Wooderson Close and would be for private sale by the club so were not seen as direct replacements for the lost houses.
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  #16206  
Old 19-04-2018, 11:06 PM
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If, as being said here, it’s unlikely the AW and maybe Holmesale will ever be developed to make it similar, albeit smaller, in style to the new stand then why on Earth have we got a new stand design that looks like it is the beginning of an integrated, US, bowl style - but in fact has no hope of ever being such? Why not design up a standalone, squarer stand, maybe in a German but also English style, that because it is such actually compliments the 3 other stands?

I don’t understand the logic .

In short it looks like a half job. Or quarter job done.

But then am bit of a design ponce.
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  #16207  
Old 19-04-2018, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Scrumpy View Post
Don't know how true it is, but someone said online they were digging down and building another concourse underneath the current one. Restricted space means they can't build up because of the houses on Park Road. Basically that stand can never be higher than its current height
Do not believe this story. Not feasible on both costs and safety reasons.
They are more likely to try to build another upper concourse if they take the rear of the stand slightly forward. They actually can build slightly higher but only by a few metres.
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  #16208  
Old 19-04-2018, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Old Joe Paxton View Post
If, as being said here, it’s unlikely the AW and maybe Holmesale will ever be developed to make it similar, albeit smaller, in style to the new stand then why on Earth have we got a new stand design that looks like it is the beginning of an integrated, US, bowl style - but in fact has no hope of ever being such? Why not design up a standalone, squarer stand, maybe in a German but also English style, that because it is such actually compliments the 3 other stands?

I don’t understand the logic .

In short it looks like a half job. Or quarter job done.

But then am bit of a design ponce.
Because we need a bowl design to fit in the space, or we'd have to knock more houses down.

But I doubt this'll be the end of development. Whitehorse will come next some time in the 2020s. Then Artur.

One thing at a time though.
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  #16209  
Old 19-04-2018, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Joe Paxton View Post
If, as being said here, it’s unlikely the AW and maybe Holmesale will ever be developed to make it similar, albeit smaller, in style to the new stand then why on Earth have we got a new stand design that looks like it is the beginning of an integrated, US, bowl style - but in fact has no hope of ever being such? Why not design up a standalone, squarer stand, maybe in a German but also English style, that because it is such actually compliments the 3 other stands?

I don’t understand the logic .

In short it looks like a half job. Or quarter job done.

But then am bit of a design ponce.
My OCD is kicking in too.
Lets hope this is just the first step towards a complete overhaul of Selhurst Park. The Corporate facilities are the most important for extra revenue. SP has stated before Arsenals Corporate Boxes generate approx 70m quid a year. I sincerely hope that once the man stand is complete that they revamp the AW and Whitehorse ends and give the stadium a more intergrated look.
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  #16210  
Old 19-04-2018, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SOUTHGATE EAGLE View Post
It brings home the fact that the area's local transport infrastructure probably couldn't support a stadium much bigger than what we currently propose unless radical improvements happen. We might have reached an approximate ceiling to the kind of crowds we could service given these constraints. Should we ever get to the stage where we were bringing in 40,000+ fans per match, we might have to relocate completely.
Does make you wonder how we coped with crowds over 40,000 in the seventies and the record crowd of 51,801 against Burnley?

I know there were less car owners and less dropped kerbs but somehow the trains coped.
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  #16211  
Old 19-04-2018, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CJ PLUM View Post
Do not believe this story. Not feasible on both costs and safety reasons.
They are more likely to try to build another upper concourse if they take the rear of the stand slightly forward. They actually can build slightly higher but only by a few metres.
The Arthur has got to be at the back of the queue for any improvements.

The Whitehorse will pay dividends by rebuilding it.

The Arthur can house away fans and they can all go and f*ck themselves in its late 60s glory.

Just need to put the clock back and re-paint the stripes and we're done.
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Old 19-04-2018, 11:36 PM
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The Arthur has got to be at the back of the queue for any improvements.

The Whitehorse will pay dividends by rebuilding it.

The Arthur can house away fans and they can all go and f*ck themselves in its late 60s glory.

Just need to put the clock back and re-paint the stripes and we're done.
The AW ingrates have had soap and paper hand towels since our last promotion. They'll be wanting bog paper next.
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Old 19-04-2018, 11:37 PM
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As an aside, at the same planning meeting they discussed the new development in Cherry Orchard Road near East Croydon. One objector claimed that the design of the two 25 story buildings would distract from the views of the No 1 CROYDON (or the old NLA Tower) which he described as the modern day architectural equivalent of St. Paul's.
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  #16214  
Old 19-04-2018, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SOUTHGATE EAGLE View Post
It brings home the fact that the area's local transport infrastructure probably couldn't support a stadium much bigger than what we currently propose unless radical improvements happen. We might have reached an approximate ceiling to the kind of crowds we could service given these constraints. Should we ever get to the stage where we were bringing in 40,000+ fans per match, we might have to relocate completely.
On the contrary, Palace are blessed with numerous bus routes, the tram and three train stations within a short walking distance (NJ, Selhurst and Thornton Heath), and a number of other stations a little further out (such as East Croydon and Crystal Palace). A football ground can't really ask for more, including new builds on an out of town site.

With an increase in attendance to, say, 40,000+, the entrances/exits of Selhurst and NJ stations would have to be renovated to cope with a greater flow of people, a stewarded queuing system would need to be in force post-match, and Southern would need to ensure trains servicing those stations post-match are the full 12-carriage formation.

Even with the enlargement to just 34,000 I would hope the above happens. The club, Network Rail, TFL and Southern really need to sit down together and work it out. Rows happen when 10,000 people are trying to get away from a football match and a 4-carriage train rolls into the station, or when the only access to the platform is - as at NJ - through a hole in the wall.
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Last edited by Robson; 19-04-2018 at 11:45 PM.
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  #16215  
Old 19-04-2018, 11:49 PM
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The club also put forward potential plans for the development of 9 residential properties at the rear of the Holmesdale Road Stand. These would replace the existing single floor structures behind the stand. These would be 3 or 4 bedroom maisonettes consisting of 2 floors and would reach as high as the current arched windows with a street level entrance towards the Park Road end of the Stand with a separated access walkway along the front. Thus the lower entrances to the Holmesdale Stand would pass under this walkway. The curve from the new Main Stand would continue round to give it an integrated appearance but a void at the rear would separate them from the main structure of the Stand.

The Councillors were very impressed by the development and praised its innovative design.

These would not however be available for the displaced residents of Wooderson Close and would be for private sale by the club so were not seen as direct replacements for the lost houses.
Jesus, doesn't anyone at our club ever learn?
Why on earth compromise future development at the Holmesdale End by planting privately owned residential properties on the footprint?
F*ck me. Let's hope this is one that bites the dust.
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  #16216  
Old 19-04-2018, 11:55 PM
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i really want to know what other targets SP has for cpfc....cos he seems to have achieved everything he sets out to do and im sure quicker than he thought too!!
To be fair I think there's a fair bit of work needed on our transfer strategy, otherwise I agree.
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Old 20-04-2018, 12:09 AM
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Re the carbon offset issue why not just put a load of solar panels on the roof?
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Old 20-04-2018, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Billy Rhino View Post
Re the carbon offset issue why not just put a load of solar panels on the roof?
Wouldn't want to do that on our shiny new stand but the Arthur has got a nice flat roof begging for solar panels.

No-one would even see them either.
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Old 20-04-2018, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Scrumpy View Post
Just need Mr Khan to say yes now ����
He'll probably require half the squad to be female, and wait for Liverpool's "thoughts".
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Old 20-04-2018, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Robson View Post
On the contrary, Palace are blessed with numerous bus routes, the tram and three train stations within a short walking distance (NJ, Selhurst and Thornton Heath), and a number of other stations a little further out (such as East Croydon and Crystal Palace). A football ground can't really ask for more, including new builds on an out of town site.

With an increase in attendance to, say, 40,000+, the entrances/exits of Selhurst and NJ stations would have to be renovated to cope with a greater flow of people, a stewarded queuing system would need to be in force post-match, and Southern would need to ensure trains servicing those stations post-match are the full 12-carriage formation.

Even with the enlargement to just 34,000 I would hope the above happens. The club, Network Rail, TFL and Southern really need to sit down together and work it out. Rows happen when 10,000 people are trying to get away from a football match and a 4-carriage train rolls into the station, or when the only access to the platform is - as at NJ - through a hole in the wall.
New tube line through south London to Croydon would solve a lot of problems and probably be economic.
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