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  #17141  
Old 07-02-2019, 09:35 AM
Harry Holmesdale Harry Holmesdale is offline
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Originally Posted by andyocpfc View Post
I'd love for Crystals to open again. Always used it. Was quite big, TV screens everywhere to watch the early match, could have a piss and was warm. I go into the fan zone, but probably for about 30 mins max and often only 15 mins. It's just not conducive with winter time and no toilets. Why on earth can't they at least hire a Portakabin each home game. Can't cost must, surely. Is the nightclub still used in Crystals or is it now completely shut down?

It astonishes me that the WH lane doesn't have a lounge of some sort allocated to it give the vast majority of fans in there are young kids and probably OAP too with their grandchildren. At least try and block off each end to reduce the wind tunnel effect which can be opened and closed.
This and the Arthur Wait mess are relatively quick wins but all the money is being chucked at one big stand that will have no impact on 60% of attendees

If Palace were really up for this south London & Proud stuff they would do more for kids and families on matchdays, they don't. Tells you all you need to know.
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  #17142  
Old 07-02-2019, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by costello View Post
So, as I understand it, the two sticking points are still 1. Finding new homes / houses for the people currently living in the houses behind the main stand and b) Getting approval from Sainsburys. Do we know (reliably) what the status is on both of these? And what about approval from the Mayor's office. Has this happened? thanks.
For someone who thinks Brexit should be a breeze to get through, Parish sure is dragging his feet getting some building work done
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  #17143  
Old 07-02-2019, 10:23 AM
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Parish's enthusiasm for Brexit is peculiar. Seems to be very naive in terms of what it means for English football.
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  #17144  
Old 07-02-2019, 11:44 AM
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I don't understand. I thought all this was step 1 years ago. I thought planning permission had been agreed and it was all done and now there are problems with the same issues raised before? Are we getting a stand or not?
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  #17145  
Old 07-02-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by costello View Post
Parish's enthusiasm for Brexit is peculiar. Seems to be very naive in terms of what it means for English football.

Isn't Brexit good for the import of foreign players as it is equal footing for all foreigners, whereas now European Union players get a preference. It would have meant that the Brazilian goalkeeper could have come direct to the UK. In reality we have signed an Italian national born in Brazil. The EU is why so many South Americans end up in Spain as they have dual nationality. That's how I understand part of it, although I am sure most of Brexit is detrimental to most people's economic status.
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  #17146  
Old 07-02-2019, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by costello View Post
So, as I understand it, the two sticking points are still 1. Finding new homes / houses for the people currently living in the houses behind the main stand and b) Getting approval from Sainsburys. Do we know (reliably) what the status is on both of these? And what about approval from the Mayor's office. Has this happened? thanks.
Don't shoot the messenger as I heard this third party, the club met the residents of Wooderson Close in the past week about their relocation, it appears it is going ahead, how soon, not clear - 2020 was mentioned as a start date, so guessing new property still has to be acquired/built. Seems plans are moving ahead, probably not as quick as we would like, but sounds positive to me - without knowing the full details.
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  #17147  
Old 07-02-2019, 12:06 PM
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Big shame is the CP sports centre debate is on again and we could have had SPs original thinking of a full stadium there with no disruption
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  #17148  
Old 07-02-2019, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by marky1919 View Post
I don't understand. I thought all this was step 1 years ago. I thought planning permission had been agreed and it was all done and now there are problems with the same issues raised before? Are we getting a stand or not?
I’m afraid it’s never been the case that ‘it was all done’. Progress has always been subject to resolving issues that the club are working on.

This is a significant build that will effect the neighbours and the council were never going to give us carte blanche to just go ahead and build it.
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  #17149  
Old 07-02-2019, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Harry Holmesdale View Post
This and the Arthur Wait mess are relatively quick wins but all the money is being chucked at one big stand that will have no impact on 60% of attendees

If Palace were really up for this south London & Proud stuff they would do more for kids and families on matchdays, they don't. Tells you all you need to know.
I believe the long term plan is to reconfigure both stands in a way that will improve the experience but reduce the capacity (hence why they donít start until the main stand has been built).

With the WHL, id be a big fan of adopting the baseball strategy in America. Eg keeping it a cheap / no frills stand and maintaining an allocation of tickets always available on the door (ie no season tickets / advance purchases). £5 a ticket or something to reflect the basic nature of the stand.

Would be a great way to attract new fans who donít have the money to pay £30 a ticket / £500 a year and do wonders for the atmosphere / establishing links with local residents.
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  #17150  
Old 07-02-2019, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
Iím afraid itís never been the case that Ďit was all doneí. Progress has always been subject to resolving issues that the club are working on.

This is a significant build that will effect the neighbours and the council were never going to give us carte blanche to just go ahead and build it.
I think the council were, the mayors office on the other hand have put up loads of blockers.
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  #17151  
Old 07-02-2019, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sw16girl View Post
It is nothing to do with getting a CPO past anyone's solicitors although you are quite right that Sainsburys would be a lot more active and have a lot more firepower in any CPO application than a small householder.

We cannot CPO anything - only the council can CPO land. There are long and difficult procedures to go through and they could be open to challenge. It is worth remembering that a CPO does get you the ground for free either you have to pay what it is worth in any event. Sainsburys would still be in a position to argue their land is worth a lot of money if they can say it always has a ransom element that does not just apply to this development as well as claiming loss of value of their remaining land etc. It would be up to an independent body to make the decision as to what it is worth.

This is a useful leaflet if you want to see what is involved - it is not a get out of jail free card especially if you are looking at something that is not a straightforward premises

To view the link you have to Register or Login
Interesting stuff, although it does actually back up my point that getting a CPO (from the council) will be difficult. What it seems you are saying is that Sainsburys can hold the club to ransom over that patch of land regardless, which is annoying when you think how little they probably paid for it.

Other than paying them full whack how does the club get around it?
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  #17152  
Old 07-02-2019, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Owngoal View Post
Big shame is the CP sports centre debate is on again and we could have had SPs original thinking of a full stadium there with no disruption
Look at the eggshells CPFC are currently treading with the redevelopment of just one stand on a site the club have been using for the past 95 years.

With the Sports Centre, which Palace had to vacate over around 104 years ago, there will not just be planning obstacles regarding the build of the stadium (no guarantee permission will be granted on demolition existing stands as I believe at least one, the Jubilee Stand is a listed building) - you have the many and various problems that gaining access and exits for the increased volume of traffic for regular attendances we would expect will place on the very limited and inadequate traffic system existing at Crystal Palace Park not to mention the various complaints and capaigns that will be encountered from local residents and businesses that gave greeted any proposed new development at CP Park for the past 40 years!


I am just finishing off reading an excellent history of the Palace grounds involving the building, grounds and circumstances involving CPFC1861 and CPFC1905 - it is very clear, even before our current club was formed around 114 years ago, the transport system in place was causing a huge lack of business due to the complications in travelling to CP Park.

If anything, the traffic problems around now would be far greater than those encountered in Victorian/Edwardian times!

Much as I would love Palace to return to CP Park, huge changes would have to take place to allow for crowds even of the size of 19,000 (the current capacity of the athletics stadium) - let alone the 40,000 plus Palace would want at a new development - I can't see anything on the horizon at CP Park for several decades yet.
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  #17153  
Old 07-02-2019, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Rhino View Post
I think the council were, the mayors office on the other hand have put up loads of blockers.
No they werenít, and thatís not necessarily meant as a criticism of the council.

The council fed back with loads of criteria to be met....and even though I want the stand built, the Council were right to seek at least some of what they asked for in order to look after our local neighbours.

I also watched the stream from the council when they quizzed our representative about the plans....my goodness the council were trying to rinse us for everything from new signage, local street and station upgrades,to street cleaning. Several of those went outside our responsibility and were the councillors seeing us as a rich Prem club to try to get more cash out of.

Under the London Plan, we were always going to have to make up for the loss of those houses too. Thatís standard stuff in the London area now.
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  #17154  
Old 07-02-2019, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Lord Flange View Post
An article on a website called devlopcroydon.com has the following:

ďIt is a complicated project, but we would really like to be onsite in the summer of 2020 to do the enabling works with an estimated two-and-a-half-year build time.Ē

- CPFCís Development Manager, Guy Wickett

Triffic
Translated then this means it won't be ready until 4 years from now, and that's if there are no further delays, which of course there will be. Realistically were talking about summer 2024 I reckon
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  #17155  
Old 07-02-2019, 01:52 PM
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Translated then this means it won't be ready until 4 years from now, and that's if there are no further delays, which of course there will be. Realistically were talking about summer 2024 I reckon
FFS. Then how many years, if ever, before the Arthur is looked at? The WH? Jesus wept, the pace of shit in this country.

I don't fancy us as this dynamic stand alone country after Brexit if this is an example. One sodding stand, at an existing bloody ground.
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  #17156  
Old 07-02-2019, 01:54 PM
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Spurs first went for planning permission back in 2009 so these are the sorts of timescales you can think about - as it happens we are now the first scheduled team to play at their new ground now Arsenal has been switched back to Wembley
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Old 07-02-2019, 01:56 PM
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All a shame really, Crystal Palace Park is the one. I don't understand the objections from local businesses, surely they'd be making a killing with the extra people in the area. Park and ride schemes could also be rolled out to deal with traffic. Are residents of South Norwood really currently that affected by extra people on match days? I think the local palace residents have overblown any potential impact.
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  #17158  
Old 07-02-2019, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by sheepy View Post
I believe the long term plan is to reconfigure both stands in a way that will improve the experience but reduce the capacity (hence why they donít start until the main stand has been built).

With the WHL, id be a big fan of adopting the baseball strategy in America. Eg keeping it a cheap / no frills stand and maintaining an allocation of tickets always available on the door (ie no season tickets / advance purchases). £5 a ticket or something to reflect the basic nature of the stand.

Would be a great way to attract new fans who donít have the money to pay £30 a ticket / £500 a year and do wonders for the atmosphere / establishing links with local residents.
Fiver a ticket, in 10 or so years, you on a wind up?

Basic nature of the stand? This is the problem, its essentially the family section in all but name but is the least desirable stand.

Way to go in attracting and retaining the new generation Palace!
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Old 07-02-2019, 02:03 PM
Harry Holmesdale Harry Holmesdale is offline
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Originally Posted by swissroll View Post
Spurs first went for planning permission back in 2009
For a new stadium

We want one stand that will have zero impact on the vast majority and will generate relatively low incomes but only if we are at full capacity week in week out

As Elgin has said from the start, it is a bodge but one that is good for the prawn sandwich gangs
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Old 07-02-2019, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Harry Holmesdale View Post
For a new stadium

We want one stand that will have zero impact on the vast majority and will generate relatively low incomes but only if we are at full capacity week in week out

As Elgin has said from the start, it is a bodge but one that is good for the prawn sandwich gangs
Although, again as Elgin says, it is a flipping big stand in relation to the rest of the stadium.

I do wonder whether we’ve been over ambitious with this new stand, as it towers over the rest. I’m not sure everyone realises how big it is, and it helps if you’ve seen their model or plan.

Would a slightly smaller one been easier to get past the council or neighbours? Would a slightly smaller stand than proposed have been financially worthwhile in the long run?

I have wondered whether the size of the new corporate area is going to be too big, especially if we were relegated. Yes, they bring in money, but sitting in the Main Stand I can see that some corporates are supporting the opposition. Do we really want many more Man U and Liverpool fans buying corporate packages so they can cheer on their team from the best central seats in our stadium?

It’s a matter of careful balance I think, and developing in an appropriate and affordable way. Encourage corporate money yes, but be aware that as a London-based club a lot of those one match tourists won’t really be interested in Palace and will dissolve away if we aren’t in the Prem.
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