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  #121  
Old 22-11-2015, 02:49 PM
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I would love it if we could get the National Sports Centre and redevelop it as a permanent training centre for all our teams including the academy and Ladies.

Not necessarily the main pool complex, just the athletics stadium, astroturf pitches, the training pool and buildings.

Reserve/development team, academy, U21s and ladies could all play their matches there and there is even a hostel which could accommodate the youngsters.

Residents could have little objection, as it wouldn't touch the ruins or dinosaur park, and it already has had thousands attending athletics meets in the past.

The Crystal Palace Centre of Excellence.
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  #122  
Old 22-11-2015, 02:54 PM
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This would never have happened under Jordo.
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  #123  
Old 22-11-2015, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Breaking rocks View Post
I would love it if we could get the National Sports Centre and redevelop it as a permanent training centre for all our teams including the academy and Ladies.

Not necessarily the main pool complex, just the athletics stadium, astroturf pitches, the training pool and buildings.

Reserve/development team, academy, U21s and ladies could all play their matches there and there is even a hostel which could accommodate the youngsters.

Residents could have little objection, as it wouldn't touch the ruins or dinosaur park, and it already has had thousands attending athletics meets in the past.

The Crystal Palace Centre of Excellence.
This is my view as well , we've been in talks with Bromley so it could be this or another site in Bromley . It makes sense and surely the nimbys couldn't object to this could they ?
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  #124  
Old 22-11-2015, 03:27 PM
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This is my view as well , we've been in talks with Bromley so it could be this or another site in Bromley . It makes sense and surely the nimbys couldn't object to this could they ?
Well if they did, only listen to anyone that has lived there before 1968 as that, iirc, was when it was built.
Anyone who moved to the area after that date knew there was a stadium present and, therefore, can have no complaints.
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  #125  
Old 22-11-2015, 04:32 PM
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Tell that to the kids who have to play there every week, and their parents.

Very little investment in the academy in the last five years.

You can make excuses all you like, we are a Premier League club with a League Two standard academy in terms of where we play, just with better players.

This club has always had the academy in its history as an integral part, right now I see no evidence of that sadly
But is the fundamental problem not location? As willingness to spend does not mean there is something to spend on. Both the Academy and the training ground are suffering because, basically, we need somewhere new for both. Until there is somewhere to go long-term money spent where we are is money wasted. Doesn't solve the problem I know, but is there much can usefully be done without a move?
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  #126  
Old 22-11-2015, 06:02 PM
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Tell that to the kids who have to play there every week, and their parents.

Very little investment in the academy in the last five years.

You can make excuses all you like, we are a Premier League club with a League Two standard academy in terms of where we play, just with better players.

This club has always had the academy in its history as an integral part, right now I see no evidence of that sadly
Perhaps the EPPP and the defection of Egbo, has somewhat cooled the interest in the academy. (a bit like Bostock turning SJ against the academy - previously his pride 'n joy).
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  #127  
Old 22-11-2015, 06:28 PM
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It's hard. Our academy really helped us from 2000 when we weren't in the top flight. Whilst not that many went on to the highest levels in the game there was certainly so many players who could start in the second tier when relatively young, Moses, Morrison, Watson, Routledge, Clyne and Wilf.

But the situation has changed. We are now in the Premier League and the opportunities for games just aren't there right now.

We need to leverage the loan system better. We need to have better cup runs. But even then it's going to be hard.

You have to wonder how many of our academy players would have got the opportunity if they were coming through now.

Williams is the best manifestation of the issue, Welsh international and can't make our bench.
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  #128  
Old 22-11-2015, 06:44 PM
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This would never have happened under Jordo.
Quite right. It would have been worse. If he had had his way we wouldn't even own the rights to our own academy.
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  #129  
Old 22-11-2015, 07:00 PM
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It's hard. Our academy really helped us from 2000 when we weren't in the top flight. Whilst not that many went on to the highest levels in the game there was certainly so many players who could start in the second tier when relatively young, Moses, Morrison, Watson, Routledge, Clyne and Wilf.

But the situation has changed. We are now in the Premier League and the opportunities for games just aren't there right now.

We need to leverage the loan system better. We need to have better cup runs. But even then it's going to be hard.

You have to wonder how many of our academy players would have got the opportunity if they were coming through now.

Williams is the best manifestation of the issue, Welsh international and can't make our bench.
Williams isn't really a valid comparison given his significant injury problems in recent years IMO.

Your other points make sense, but how are we going to produce players good enough for the first team when the pitches they play on are so bad and the facilities are non-existent? QPR, Millwall, Charlton and Fulham all currently have superior facilities to us at the moment. That's some serious local competition to scout and then sign players. Chelsea are on our patch too - we're unlikely to ever be able to compete with their millions but if you can show a pathway into the first team and show some decent facilities you've got some chance.

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Originally Posted by Celestial Empire View Post
Perhaps the EPPP and the defection of Egbo, has somewhat cooled the interest in the academy. (a bit like Bostock turning SJ against the academy - previously his pride 'n joy).
Egbo left because a better, bigger club came calling and offered him a chance in another country. Given that in terms of proximity to the first team he would have been closer to the first team here, you have to question what made him go.

EPPP wouldn't be much of a problem if we were a Category 1 club - which given our PL status we should be. We signed Flanagan from Southend under EPPP, and he chose to stay here rather than sign for Manchester United which was a surprise, but pleasing nonetheless.

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But is the fundamental problem not location? As willingness to spend does not mean there is something to spend on. Both the Academy and the training ground are suffering because, basically, we need somewhere new for both. Until there is somewhere to go long-term money spent where we are is money wasted. Doesn't solve the problem I know, but is there much can usefully be done without a move?
There are two problems: The state of GOALS' pitches, and that there are currently no identified places for a new training ground/place for the academy to play.

Both of those issues could and should have been resolved previously. Trenham Drive was an option not taken up by the club, the HSBC ground didn't get bought, and I think there was a third site too.

If GOALS is the best site all things considered then that's a serious issue - surely there's a better site somewhere?

I hope this American investment means we can build a new training ground with good facilities for the first team and the academy, or at least allow the academy to play at Beckenham again. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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  #130  
Old 22-11-2015, 07:19 PM
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This would never have happened under Jordo.
And we would still be struggling in the championship!!!

Rock & a hard place springs to mind, Championship where you can easily blood youngsters, or PL and invest in the 1st team squad because the youth cannot handle the PL starts
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  #131  
Old 22-11-2015, 07:21 PM
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I wonder whether Palace or a club (those that aren't as cash ready as Man City for example) has ever come up with the idea with having a sole owner over seeing the development of the academy, including that of training ground development and whether or not it would be benefit the football club as a whole.

I know this potential investment now sees the consortium able to take more of a hold in progressing the club in all aspects now but I wonder if they see any of the orginal four taking, seeing as they are lifelong Palace fans, taking reigns of the academy in terms of developing and progressing it?
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  #132  
Old 22-11-2015, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SilentAssassin View Post
I wonder whether Palace or a club (those that aren't as cash ready as Man City for example) has ever come up with the idea with having a sole owner over seeing the development of the academy, including that of training ground development and whether or not it would be benefit the football club as a whole.

I know this potential investment now sees the consortium able to take more of a hold in progressing the club in all aspects now but I wonder if they see any of the orginal four taking, seeing as they are lifelong Palace fans, taking reigns of the academy in terms of developing and progressing it?
Are you hinting at a "B" team/club?
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  #133  
Old 22-11-2015, 07:54 PM
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May not be true but was told by somebody on HSBC side that it was HSBC who pulled out of the deal. Sale proceeds would have been relatively insignificant for mega sized company like them and there was "noise" from their staff who use the facility. Shame as was perfect size and location and the grounds are kept in lovely condition.
Catch 22 because as a lot of you have mentioned, other areas of club have been higher financial priority. But agree 100% with Woosie that current facilities are by far the worse around so if parents of a promising youngster are approached now by Palace and another local club, then it's a no brainer to reject Palace. And if that means Palace miss out on just one Zaha then we've actually taken a big financial hit.
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  #134  
Old 22-11-2015, 08:25 PM
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Big investment in the Academy is indeed needed but wouldn't show any major benefits for a few years anyway. City have spent 200m on their's and it's not produced much as yet.
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  #135  
Old 22-11-2015, 08:33 PM
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Perhaps one of the objectives of the proposed investment is to fund a cat 1 academy?

It could be that discussions have been going on with others (Bromley Council?) and that the announcement of investment may also be combined with something on the academy; possibly at the NSC?
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  #136  
Old 22-11-2015, 08:34 PM
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May not be true but was told by somebody on HSBC side that it was HSBC who pulled out of the deal. Sale proceeds would have been relatively insignificant for mega sized company like them and there was "noise" from their staff who use the facility. Shame as was perfect size and location and the grounds are kept in lovely condition.
Catch 22 because as a lot of you have mentioned, other areas of club have been higher financial priority. But agree 100% with Woosie that current facilities are by far the worse around so if parents of a promising youngster are approached now by Palace and another local club, then it's a no brainer to reject Palace. And if that means Palace miss out on just one Zaha then we've actually taken a big financial hit.
Pretty sure you are right on HSBC - their sudden change of mind was probably to do with their last decision not to move HQ to Hong Kong (as distinct from their current dithering about their HQ).
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Old 22-11-2015, 08:39 PM
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Are you hinting at a "B" team/club?
Slightly, not in the sense of what is abroad however but set up in the system in place we have over here. Where there is a broader investment base and what seems a willingness for those with a stake to remain in thier roles at the clubs then perhaps it enables one or two of the owners to take day to day running of the youth system. It also enables the other owners to concentrate on their part of running first team affairs.
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  #138  
Old 22-11-2015, 08:54 PM
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I'd love to see the academy be predominantly based at the NSC, but even with work done to it I'm not quite sure it would be big enough to satisfy the needs of a premier league club.

As many have said I can understand why the academy have to play elsewhere, but I could name 5 facilities off the top of my head that would be better than Beckenham Goals centre. It's poor but I'm sure SP and co haven't willingly neglected the academy. Something needs to be sorted for next season, although i have to admit if I was a parent to one of the boys currently trying to assert themselves a profession in Football I'd be pretty livid with playing on those facilities every other week. No matter what anybody says good facilities are integral to the development of a young players game.
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  #139  
Old 22-11-2015, 09:20 PM
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Williams isn't really a valid comparison given his significant injury problems in recent years IMO.

Your other points make sense, but how are we going to produce players good enough for the first team when the pitches they play on are so bad and the facilities are non-existent? QPR, Millwall, Charlton and Fulham all currently have superior facilities to us at the moment. That's some serious local competition to scout and then sign players. Chelsea are on our patch too - we're unlikely to ever be able to compete with their millions but if you can show a pathway into the first team and show some decent facilities you've got some chance.



Egbo left because a better, bigger club came calling and offered him a chance in another country. Given that in terms of proximity to the first team he would have been closer to the first team here, you have to question what made him go.

EPPP wouldn't be much of a problem if we were a Category 1 club - which given our PL status we should be. We signed Flanagan from Southend under EPPP, and he chose to stay here rather than sign for Manchester United which was a surprise, but pleasing nonetheless.



There are two problems: The state of GOALS' pitches, and that there are currently no identified places for a new training ground/place for the academy to play.

Both of those issues could and should have been resolved previously. Trenham Drive was an option not taken up by the club, the HSBC ground didn't get bought, and I think there was a third site too.

If GOALS is the best site all things considered then that's a serious issue - surely there's a better site somewhere?

I hope this American investment means we can build a new training ground with good facilities for the first team and the academy, or at least allow the academy to play at Beckenham again. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
I appreciate what you are saying, but given we are where we are, is there anything to gain by spending now? Are we not in a position where we need big investment or make the (very poor) best of a bad job rather than waste even more? A genuine question from a position of no idea myself. Also, if we moved to somewhere new for say the first and development teams could Beckenham house the Academy?

Last edited by Beanie; 22-11-2015 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 22-11-2015, 09:34 PM
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eagle-leg came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteagle-leg came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteagle-leg came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteagle-leg came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteagle-leg came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteagle-leg came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteagle-leg came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteagle-leg came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteagle-leg came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteagle-leg came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteagle-leg came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
I'm not sure any premier league club can genuinely demonstrate a route to the first team.
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