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  #31241  
Old 15-06-2019, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Aldershot private companies buy other companies all the time, so why shouldn’t a government?

They also have the advantage that they could carry out investment at much lower borrowing rates going forward.

I think a well run public industry could definitely do better than some of the way current monopolies are being run.
Private companies certainly do buy companies all the time. But they do so with a plan of where they can improve efficiencies. Otherwise when they pay open market value for something there is no point as it achieves nothing for their shareholders. In this circumstance we’re the shareholders. What does this do for us? We already have very cheap distribution networks by comparison to other countries. And we don’t subsidise them as say France do.

A well run public industry could do better than some elements of the water network. Yet, I would prefer that someone demonstrate they can run a utility better through public ownership better than private before they spunk £300bn on an ideology.

What would actually make some sense would be for a Corbyn led government to acquire a regional water network and demonstrate that they can create a well run water network before embarking on a huge renationalisation plan.
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  #31242  
Old 15-06-2019, 06:13 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
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The public works loan board is an effective option that should be upscaled.
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  #31243  
Old 15-06-2019, 06:16 PM
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The public works loan board is an effective option that should be upscaled.
Maybe. I can see arguments both ways (as to the vehicle for increased capital investment). But it generates new investment which is a good thing. I would imagine upscaling would require more co-ordination between the recipients for coordinated projects, but that cold be done.

But Corbyn isn’t interested in new investment. He’s interested in ideology.
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  #31244  
Old 15-06-2019, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post

Iíll certainly concede weíre being screwed over rail. Network Rail, the nationalised part of our rail network is appallingly run, far far far more expensive than some of its European competitors. It costs taxpayers several billion a year, and the beneficiaries of that are generally the well off (as the rail users are well off compared to the general public). So we have a shite nationalised part which results in a subsidy for the well off. Not a good place to be.
ah the old spuff approach to rail. There costs to the taxpayers are higher now then in the days of a nationalised service. thats probably down to the shite way the franchise system works. you may well be correct that National rail is appallingly run (one only has to look at their farcical approach to electrification to see that their project management is shite for example) good luck with trying to convince passenger that they get good value for money (supposedly because they are better off)...
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  #31245  
Old 15-06-2019, 06:32 PM
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ah the old spuff approach to rail. There costs to the taxpayers are higher now then in the days of a nationalised service. thats probably down to the shite way the franchise system works. you may well be correct that National rail is appallingly run (one only has to look at their farcical approach to electrification to see that their project management is shite for example) good luck with trying to convince passenger that they get good value for money (supposedly because they are better off)...
Some tickets are cheaper, some more expensive after adjusting for inflation. Walk on peak singles are hugely more expensive after inflation adjustment. Off peaks are cheaper and season tickets are around the same (which makes sense given the cap). Advanced tickets are also much cheaper.

I’d have to check usage since privatisation but I would imagine that’s up and up a lot. Which means overcrowding. Unless new capacity can be generated on the rail network (network rail’s issue) then I don’t see how nationalising the TOC’s solves that issue given it is an issue for the already nationalised part.

The railways are far from perfect but nationalising it isn’t going to solve the issues it faces.
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  #31246  
Old 15-06-2019, 06:37 PM
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Away matches in the Brum area are ok because you have a choice of routes and operators.
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  #31247  
Old 15-06-2019, 06:40 PM
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Away matches in the Brum area are ok because you have a choice of routes and operators.
If you consider Midlands a choice
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  #31248  
Old 15-06-2019, 11:06 PM
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Aldershot you say do a sample first through a region.

But I would say public ownership has two huge advantages going forward.

1) massively reduced borrowing costs for investment.

2) no need for dividends and this can be passed on to increased investment, higher wages and cheaper bills.

On another note I’ve wondered why no left wing council has never sacked their entire senior management. As a socialist I firmly believe workers can run things for themselves. This is backed by the number of utterly useless senior managers I’ve come across, in both the public and private sector, who do more harm than good. Partly through being useless and partly through not really ever consulting their workforce who actually know what the jobs involve.
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  #31249  
Old 16-06-2019, 05:31 AM
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Aldershot you say do a sample first through a region.

But I would say public ownership has two huge advantages going forward.

And the 3rd is the ability to make a strategy and then build towards it, without the profit motive sucking out the funding or driving you off course for contractual reasons.
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  #31250  
Old 16-06-2019, 07:20 AM
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We already have a very well run distribution network which provides the end user with some of the lowest transmission costs in the EU, despite no subsidy. That’s the bit you what to nationalise. Not generation. Not retail. But distribution. The bit where there is no market failure.

Now we have a huge investment requirement in generation. Off the charts huge. But hey, let’s buy the distribution network, get no multiplier for it, and then **** it up, whilst simultaneously significantly reducing our ability to actually invest in generation, generate a multiplier and actually create the vertical integration you want.

It’s just ideological nonsense. It’s up there with Skintagain’s plans for Brexit.
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  #31251  
Old 16-06-2019, 08:19 AM
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After the rum do passengers have had in recent times, I'm mainly in favour of rationalizing the railways.

I still don't like the woolly and asinine way online tickets are sold, where it works cheaper if you buy multiple tickets instead of just one end to end..

Just another way Joe Public are being ripped off
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  #31252  
Old 16-06-2019, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
We already have a very well run distribution network which provides the end user with some of the lowest transmission costs in the EU, despite no subsidy. Thatís the bit you what to nationalise. Not generation. Not retail. But distribution. The bit where there is no market failure.

Now we have a huge investment requirement in generation. Off the charts huge. But hey, letís buy the distribution network, get no multiplier for it, and then **** it up, whilst simultaneously significantly reducing our ability to actually invest in generation, generate a multiplier and actually create the vertical integration you want.

Itís just ideological nonsense. Itís up there with Skintagainís plans for Brexit.
All of it should be nationalised. Which would make for a much more seamless energy sector.
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  #31253  
Old 16-06-2019, 08:32 AM
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It costs taxpayers several billion a year, and the beneficiaries of that are generally the well off (as the rail users are well off compared to the general public).
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Iíd have to check usage since privatisation but I would imagine thatís up and up a lot. Which means overcrowding.
It sounds like the numbers of well off people (i.e rail users) have increased a lot under the Tories.

Having said that more than a few of my fellow passengers don't exactly look well off, but it just goes to show that you never can tell.
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Old 16-06-2019, 09:34 AM
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No we are not, but here is a something for people to consider as an antidote to the anti centrist trope that emanates form the left over Blair. Also worth reminding you that Major was a far more competent opponent to Blair, than Corbyn has been to May . Have a read of this, some of Blairs acheivements .

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates.

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

9. Employment is at its highest level ever.

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.

11. 85,000 more nurses.

12. 32,000 more doctors.

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.

16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.

18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.

19. Restored city-wide government to London.

20. Record number of students in higher education.

21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.

22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Childrenís Centres.

23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.

27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.

28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.

29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.

30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.

31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.

32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.

33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.

34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.

35. Banned fox hunting.

36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.

37. Free TV licences for over-75s.

38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.

39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.

41. New Deal Ė helped over 1.8 million people into work.

42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.

43. Free eye test for over 60s.

44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.

45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.

46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.

47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.

48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.

49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.
The people have had enough of Europe making all our laws, telling us what we can and cannot do, and that's why we're leaving.
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Old 16-06-2019, 09:50 AM
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So, this Jeremy Corbyn?
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  #31256  
Old 16-06-2019, 09:52 AM
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I would also like to know what evidence there is that rail users are well off.
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Old 16-06-2019, 09:55 AM
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The bit this morning about taxing gifts to the kids such as housing deposits is really going to go down well. 48% of FTBs are expecting some parental (or grand parent) help with the deposit, stamp duty and legal fees.
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Old 16-06-2019, 10:21 AM
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The bit this morning about taxing gifts to the kids such as housing deposits is really going to go down well. 48% of FTBs are expecting some parental (or grand parent) help with the deposit, stamp duty and legal fees.
It'll cause uproar but if you can afford to give your kids an advantage over other kids then why shouldn't it be taxable?
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Old 16-06-2019, 10:31 AM
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It'll cause uproar but if you can afford to give your kids an advantage over other kids then why shouldn't it be taxable?
Because itís income on which you will already have been taxed?
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Old 16-06-2019, 10:41 AM
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I would also like to know what evidence there is that rail users are well off.
Alders travels by train?
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