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  #61  
Old 20-02-2019, 04:22 PM
Clapham Rover Clapham Rover is offline
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
She didn't fight Osborne's austerity or benefit cuts. Nor is this going to stop a hard brexit. Probably the opposite.
TIG will doubtless want to "position" itself as anti-austerity but their voting records & public pronouncements will embarrass all of them and I just don't see how they'll have any credibility here. The SDP at least had genuine ideological consistency & credibility, even if they were always going to doom us to 10 extra years of Thatcherism due to FPTP.

Same with Brexit; the choice will be hard with the tories, soft with Labour, and TIG will facilitate a Tory win.
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  #62  
Old 20-02-2019, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
Cheers. So if this new political movement gains some momentum it is not hard to see at least another 4 tories jumping ship. What a shame!!
Likewise if more Labour MPs join up then their chance of defeating the government disappear.
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  #63  
Old 20-02-2019, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Hmm.


It seems a bit of a shame that when someone tries to do something new, people insist on attaching outdated, pejorative labels to them.

I could understand that from those who feel betrayed (such emotions are ugly things though) but from a rational person?
Maybe those that support the hard left or hard right are now seeing their opportunity to govern disappear. Which is what I would hope for as a citizen of the most liberal, tolerant, country on the planet.
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  #64  
Old 20-02-2019, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jukesy View Post
Likewise if more Labour MPs join up then their chance of defeating the government disappear.
It’s no different to the DUP situation, where the government’s success can depend on relatively minor parties.
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  #65  
Old 20-02-2019, 04:37 PM
Clapham Rover Clapham Rover is offline
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Originally Posted by Jukesy View Post
Maybe those that support the hard left or hard right are now seeing their opportunity to govern disappear. Which is what I would hope for as a citizen of the most liberal, tolerant, country on the planet.
Just as an example - can you tell me the "hard left" policy from the 2017 Labour Party manifesto that most frightens you?
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  #66  
Old 20-02-2019, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
Cheers. So if this new political movement gains some momentum it is not hard to see at least another 4 tories jumping ship. What a shame!!
Maybe. Not only are Tories slow to jump ship, but I think plenty of prospective recruits will wait until the last minute (if at all) to try and stop the ERG gaining control of the party.

Also - an immediate election doesn't necessarily help TIG. I'm not sure they want to bring down May's government today.
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  #67  
Old 20-02-2019, 05:08 PM
Clapham Rover Clapham Rover is offline
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Also - an immediate election doesn't necessarily help TIG. I'm not sure they want to bring down May's government today.
An election's the last thing they want. They'll be destroyed.
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  #68  
Old 20-02-2019, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clapham Rover View Post
TIG will doubtless want to "position" itself as anti-austerity but their voting records & public pronouncements will embarrass all of them and I just don't see how they'll have any credibility here. The SDP at least had genuine ideological consistency & credibility, even if they were always going to doom us to 10 extra years of Thatcherism due to FPTP.

Same with Brexit; the choice will be hard with the tories, soft with Labour, and TIG will facilitate a Tory win.
Think it is more likely to be an anti-Brexit party of the centre.
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  #69  
Old 20-02-2019, 07:03 PM
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MPs who leave their party should...

Resign their seat and fight a by-election: 49%
Continue to serve their term: 28%

via @YouGov, 20 Feb

...
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  #70  
Old 20-02-2019, 07:08 PM
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Just after 31 minutes. Freedom of movement as it is should end, by using EU rules by throwing people out after three months if they don't have a job.

Then goes on to say that incomers (Eastern Europeans), should embrace what it means to be English and learn to cook apple strudel.

Then says immigrants aren't made to speak English and suggested this was a problem.

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“Only 138,000 migrants, fewer than 0.3% of population, speak no English. Many an older generation who had come as grandparents. Census 2011.”
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  #71  
Old 20-02-2019, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
...
Already posted on another thread...

How many MPs have crossed the floor and how many have had by-elections? Quite a lot and not many.

As Corbyn posted on Twitter some years ago, you elect the person not the party.

Also, Jared O'Mara
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  #72  
Old 20-02-2019, 07:13 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
Already posted on another thread...

How many MPs have crossed the floor and how many have had by-elections? Quite a lot and not many.

As Corbyn posted on Twitter some years ago, you elect the person not the party.

Also, Jared O'Mara
Doesn't make it any better. Clearly, morally, they should have an election.
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  #73  
Old 20-02-2019, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Doesn't make it any better. Clearly, morally, they should have an election.
Now I know why you're saying that. (And it isn't because you think that morally, they should have an election).


But an election in which each candidate could go public on why they left Labour could be really damaging for your party as well. And maybe encourage more Labour MPs to defect.


If I were you, I'd be hoping there were no by-elections until the fuss had died down a bit.
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  #74  
Old 20-02-2019, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Doesn't make it any better. Clearly, morally, they should have an election.
Whether it should or shouldn't happen automatically, or whether constituents should be able to recall an MP in such circumstances, suddenly calling for it in the current situation seems a bit, well, bitter
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  #75  
Old 20-02-2019, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Jukesy View Post
Likewise if more Labour MPs join up then their chance of defeating the government disappear.
Not necessarily, they still have a vote and why would they back the current Government's position?
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  #76  
Old 20-02-2019, 09:34 PM
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Because they would likely lose their seats.
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  #77  
Old 20-02-2019, 10:15 PM
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Europe has been a source of political angst for 40 years. It winged Wilson, split Foot’s Labour Party, got Thatcher, winged Major, meant Miliband wasn’t elected, got Cameron and will get May. Its also fracturing the Labour and Tory party.

What will they do once we’ve left?
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  #78  
Old 20-02-2019, 10:27 PM
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From an issue perspective, I personally identify with TIG more than any other party. I think Anna soubry gives them some credibility. She was one of the few conservatives who i respected even when I didnt agree with her.
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  #79  
Old 20-02-2019, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Now I know why you're saying that. (And it isn't because you think that morally, they should have an election).


But an election in which each candidate could go public on why they left Labour could be really damaging for your party as well. And maybe encourage more Labour MPs to defect.


If I were you, I'd be hoping there were no by-elections until the fuss had died down a bit.
I genuinely do think someone should do it on a moral level. I would say the same if someone defected to Labour. I also don't care if it is damaging to Labour, it's the right thing to do.
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  #80  
Old 20-02-2019, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
I genuinely do think someone should do it on a moral level. I would say the same if someone defected to Labour. I also don't care if it is damaging to Labour, it's the right thing to do.
I agree
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