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  #121  
Old 10-06-2019, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by WorthingEagle View Post
A couple of leagues lower I reckon, at least.

I think comparisons are valid because non-league players with more skill and playing in front of bigger crowds don't expect to be handed professional contracts and have live coverage on terrestrial TV.

You can watch a women's tennis match or golf tournament and see truly world class sport, currently women's football doesn't offer anything that you couldn't see for free down the park from two top Sunday sides.
Wonder how long the BBC shove this down our throats before they get bored of it..... 2 more years...3?!
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  #122  
Old 10-06-2019, 07:53 PM
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Serena and Venus Williams were comfortably beaten by a guy ranked outside the top 200 who claimed he was playing well below his best because he didn’t need to.

Sports Women should be judged by their performances relative to their peers
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  #123  
Old 10-06-2019, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Worksop Palace View Post
Oooh donít know about that mate.

The number 5,4,3,2,1 women seeds would smash the 300-400 seeded men
Serena William's herself has mentioned she would beat men outside 350. This was at her height and none if the current crop are like that. McEnroe put her around top 700.

You remember that exhibition years ago. That guy outside the top 200, played golf in the morning, had a boozy lunch, then hammered both the William's sisters

Anyway, enough of this tennis thread, I'm going over to the WC thread......
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  #124  
Old 10-06-2019, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by macstar View Post
Wonder how long the BBC shove this down our throats before they get bored of it..... 2 more years...3?!
How precisely do they shove it down your throat?

Were 6m people forced to watch the Eng Scot match?
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  #125  
Old 10-06-2019, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Worksop Palace View Post
I watched a bit of the Eng game yesterday and was trying to get a straight edge on the standard compared to the men’s game. I reckoned one league below conference

Fair ?
I think much, much lower. I’d be surprised if a decent men’s Sunday League team couldn’t put the England ladies away.

As for tennis; McEnroe said recently that he thought Serena Williams would rank 700th in the men’s game. I tend to agree. He also said he reckoned he could take her himself now.

*edit*. Just noticed ebyeeckeagle beat me to it.
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  #126  
Old 10-06-2019, 08:19 PM
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Didn't our palace ladies lose to that team of old former England player's a few months back? I was curious as to the strength of our side and whether they treated it seriously.
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  #127  
Old 10-06-2019, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by brighton_eagle View Post
Ah ok. It changed from 15 to 16 in 2014/15 and changed to 18 the next season apparently. Odd. I wonder if that applied to all county FAs.
Once you get to 16/17/18, you might aswell do away with the rule altogether.
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  #128  
Old 10-06-2019, 08:35 PM
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You would think that FIFA would think things through and not make the woman play at Dinner time...
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  #129  
Old 11-06-2019, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by firesign View Post
Serena and Venus Williams were comfortably beaten by a guy ranked outside the top 200 who claimed he was playing well below his best because he didnít need to.

Sports Women should be judged by their performances relative to their peers
Agreed. It is like saying because Mayweather would lose to Joshua and most other heavyweights, he is shit/not worthy of the coverage/money/status etc he has as a boxer. It's a rubbish argument that is perpetually used. Women's football has had years of being underfunded, not supported and actively blocked. Comparing to the riches of the men's game is ridiculous and ignorant. If you don't like it don't watch it but the constant attempts at belittling are pretty pathetic.
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  #130  
Old 11-06-2019, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ebyeeckeagle View Post
If you think comparisons are relevant, then the top female tennis players would struggle to beat a single man in the top 500.
Perhaps, but that would be down to speed and power, not skill. Semi-pro/Club players couldn't play the shots Jo Konta does, but she just wouldn't get the chance to play them as often. Same with golf, with the tees slightly forward women can hit shots and scores the average male player can only dream of.

In football however there are blokes working on a building site after being released by Wigan at 14 who get £50-a-game playing for Lancaster, with more skill than many professional female players. That's before we even start talking about speed and power.

It's entertainment value that's important, not whether they could theoretically beat men, and at the moment there's very few female players who can do extraordinary things with a football that Wayne from Wigan can't do.

I do understand that women's football was prevented from growing by the FA until recently, but I'm not sure forcing the game into the mainstream before it's ready is the answer either.
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  #131  
Old 11-06-2019, 06:58 AM
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If I can contribute anything the womenís team at my university used to enter a 5 a side team in the university league and regularly beat the men pretty easily.

Admittedly the standard was pretty poor (our handball team used to enter it for a laugh as well as for general fitness) it was funny to see the looks on the faces of the men when they lost. I guess 5 a side put much more of an emphasis on technical ability which most of the men didnít have and removed much of the physical advantage.

This season I have refereed many womenís, menís and (male) youth football. What I have noticed is that at parks level the technical ability of the women is not necessarily much worse (and the behaviour far better) but once the game gets to about 70 minutes it does tend to slow down significantly, even if close on the score line. The menís games and even the youth games donít seem to slow down in the same way.
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  #132  
Old 11-06-2019, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by WorthingEagle View Post
Perhaps, but that would be down to speed and power, not skill. Semi-pro/Club players couldn't play the shots Jo Konta does, but she just wouldn't get the chance to play them as often. Same with golf, with the tees slightly forward women can hit shots and scores the average male player can only dream of.

In football however there are blokes working on a building site after being released by Wigan at 14 who get £50-a-game playing for Lancaster, with more skill than many professional female players. That's before we even start talking about speed and power.

It's entertainment value that's important, not whether they could theoretically beat men, and at the moment there's very few female players who can do extraordinary things with a football that Wayne from Wigan can't do.

I do understand that women's football was prevented from growing by the FA until recently, but I'm not sure forcing the game into the mainstream before it's ready is the answer either.
How is it being forced into the mainstream? (Or onto people, for snowflakes like macstar). There have been a couple of games on BBC 1 and the rest on the red button. The amount of coverage really isn't that different to 4 years ago.

And as was said before, no one forced 6 million people to watch the england game on sunday. Hundreds of other channels if people don't like it.
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  #133  
Old 11-06-2019, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
Elite womenís international sides regularly play and sometimes lose to u15s and u16s. So thereís your answer. Wherever you think 15 and 16 year old boys from professional academies could play on the English football pyramid.

The physical differences just canít be compensated for, not just the obvious things like speed, height, strength, but men also have faster reaction times. From what Iíve heard, girls and boys are fairly even football wise until they turn 11- 13 and puberty hits, and the gap keeps getting wider from there on.

But, the technical side is still very much there. And at the end of the day, itís all relative. Brazilís Marta still looks spectacular skinning admittedly slower and weaker female defenders.
This . A while back the Aus women's team played the Newcastle ( A league) U 16s and got beat 7 - 0
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  #134  
Old 11-06-2019, 12:37 PM
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There are some different arguments here. For me itís irrelevant how Womanís football compares to Menís football in standard as far as if it deserves coverage. It is the top level of Womanís football regardless.

What is the real question is whether there is genuine interest?, and if itís not there will it grow by exposing people to it? I do feel there is abit of a phony push by the BBC for example to pump it on the football page, Im not interested (I will add Im not interested in anything apart from Crystal Palace when it comes to football so itís not a surprise) but I get it, itís new to us but in 10 years time no one will question it.
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Last edited by MFBias; 11-06-2019 at 12:40 PM.
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  #135  
Old 11-06-2019, 12:59 PM
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There are some different arguments here. For me itís irrelevant how Womanís football compares to Menís football in standard as far as if it deserves coverage. It is the top level of Womanís football regardless.

What is the real question is whether there is genuine interest?, and if itís not there will it grow by exposing people to it? I do feel there is abit of a phony push by the BBC for example to pump it on the football page, Im not interested (I will add Im not interested in anything apart from Crystal Palace when it comes to football so itís not a surprise) but I get it, itís new to us but in 10 years time no one will question it.
I think that is pretty fair assessment.

I've coached at and run a junior football club for over 10 years now. We finally have a handful of girls teams at older groups (which is what they wanted) and a good number of girls playing in mixed teams in younger ages. Part of that is the exposure of the women's game - that feedback comes from the girls and parents telling us. Partly it is local initiatives and a simple thing like having a female coach or two.

But if we are serious about sport and its' benefits for young people, in particular for girls who often give it up, then I find this whining over some extra promotion or coverage bizarre. Maybe it is forced a bit - but so what?

Like you say, 10/20/30 years time, we will look back and think such attitudes odd.
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  #136  
Old 11-06-2019, 01:09 PM
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Think I’ve said this on another thread, but as inclusive as we like to think that men’s football is in the UK, it’s still 80% blokes who are seriously invested. So I think the potential is there in women’s football for a huge amount more girls to become invested and increase the sports popularity.
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  #137  
Old 11-06-2019, 03:20 PM
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There are some different arguments here. For me itís irrelevant how Womanís football compares to Menís football in standard as far as if it deserves coverage. It is the top level of Womanís football regardless.

What is the real question is whether there is genuine interest?, and if itís not there will it grow by exposing people to it? I do feel there is abit of a phony push by the BBC for example to pump it on the football page, Im not interested (I will add Im not interested in anything apart from Crystal Palace when it comes to football so itís not a surprise) but I get it, itís new to us but in 10 years time no one will question it.
The Womens World Cup isn't bad at all, but it does feel over egg'ed by the BBC for sure. Perfect example today.

Dutch woman does a drag-back turn
To view the link you have to Register or Login

Is she better than Cruyff, at a Cruyff turn?
No... I don't think she even did a Cruyff turn!

"Outrageous" was Bolasie's turn. Pretending to cross and dragging the ball back is a nice bit of skill and effective. Outrageous it is not.
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  #138  
Old 11-06-2019, 03:53 PM
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I've been watching the games highlights show (and I use that term lightly) over here, and hand on heart some of the bad finishing (missed goals) and goalkeeping is bordering on laughable.

As a contest it is fine, because both teams are basically as bad as each other which makes it a contest. Much like watching a game down the park on a Sunday morning can be entertaining despite the poor quality.

All this talk of equal pay by certain (American) players is ridiculous at this time, although the US team is undoubtedly the best out there, they still have some way to go to be on an equal standing with the men's US team.
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  #139  
Old 11-06-2019, 04:06 PM
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I've been watching the games highlights show (and I use that term lightly) over here, and hand on heart some of the bad finishing (missed goals) and goalkeeping is bordering on laughable.

As a contest it is fine, because both teams are basically as bad as each other which makes it a contest. Much like watching a game down the park on a Sunday morning can be entertaining despite the poor quality.

All this talk of equal pay by certain (American) players is ridiculous at this time, although the US team is undoubtedly the best out there, they still have some way to go to be on an equal standing with the men's US team.
Ronda Rousey at a time was the highest earning in MMA because she was the biggest pull for the sport. Fight for a pay increase sure but to ask for parity itís reflective of the draw. Whoís going to pay it if the FAís and Clubs arnít getting the money via sponsorship? The Womanís game has only been pro for afew years, it takes time. Itís just living in a fair world which the world doesnt work like.
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  #140  
Old 11-06-2019, 04:40 PM
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All this talk of equal pay by certain (American) players is ridiculous at this time, although the US team is undoubtedly the best out there, they still have some way to go to be on an equal standing with the men's US team.
Depending on your definition of standing, they are already on equal standing (or better) than the men. The men's team just lost 3-0 to Venezuela at home and it was way worse than that score. Unfortunately for the US women, they need US Soccer more than US Soccer needs them. Also, unless you're Alex Morgan or Morgan Rapinoe, the US games probably represent a pretty large proportion of your yearly revenue. So, it ends up being a dangerous game of chicken between US Soccer and the female players.

EDIT: Just read something that complicates the negotiations between the players and US Soccer. National Team players that play in the American women's pro soccer league are paid by the federation and not the teams. Every single player from the national team plays in the American pro league. I'm sure they feel external (and internal) pressures to play in the league to try and make it successful thereby forgoing bigger paychecks from the big teams in Europe. For example, Alex Morgan spent a season at Lyon and was making $30k a month.
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