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  #121  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:26 PM
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Or to quote Ben Shapiro - facts don't care about your feelings.
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  #122  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
Not quite so simple. I mean you’ve got a penis, but you’re clearly also a ****.
Now I've not been offensive towards you.

I'd ask the same courtesy.
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  #123  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Coastal Palace View Post
Or to quote Ben Shapiro - facts don't care about your feelings.

So you have no answer then.
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  #124  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by PauLo View Post
So you have no answer then.
I do indeed.
And you've quoted it.
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  #125  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:35 PM
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Ben Shapiro.

Thatís just a shitty sound bite you can use when your argument fails. Did you read the article I posted on the last page that totally refutes Shapiroís POV by the way?
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  #126  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by PauLo View Post
Did you read the article I posted on the last page that totally refutes Shapiroís POV by the way?
I did. Did you bother to watch the video's I posted?

Fact is, we're polar opposites of this particular fence and neither of us will change the mind of the other.

So therefore I'll bow out and respectfully disagree with your stance.

COYP.
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  #127  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RDSdaEAGLE View Post
I've met transgender people. I've spoken with them about their decision to change.

In one case, prior to meeting him, I had no idea he'd been a woman before and I had clear ideas about gender and the use of him/her/he/she etc.

I spoke to him about it. His parents supported his change. They said he always behaved like their other son, rather than like a woman. This idea that it's a delusion or a mental illness is a very easy way to undermine or denigrate what is ultimately an incredible process to go through for people who are transgender. Why would people willingly differentiate themselves from the societal norms in such a way, if it wasn't for a very good reason?

So yeah, Shapiro isn't wrong about his use of a gender pronoun. He's not wrong to call someone a 'he' when they used to be a 'she' -- in biological terms, he's absolutely right. But the context is that for people who go through this process, who go through a process of alienation (which in many cases it is) they have to fight societal perception but also their own insecurities to be called a man.

It's not just about political correctness but about some kind of basic level of decency, isn't it? Why when it only affects a tiny percentage of the population is it such a defining issue?
That is the point,it is total mental anguish,and not an easy thing to come to terms with.
But they are a tiny percentage
Just like the gay bloke with his cake
Give us a ****in break
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  #128  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
"I don't care much about Brexit. But differential focus on motivation among killers is telling." 16th June 2016. The day Jo Cox was murdered
One Halfwit out of how many,and that's your summing up
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  #129  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Coastal Palace View Post
I did. Did you bother to watch the video's I posted?



Fact is, we're polar opposites of this particular fence and neither of us will change the mind of the other.



So therefore I'll bow out and respectfully disagree with your stance.



COYP.

Fair enough. Just always fascinates me how something that has absolutely nothing to do with you could bother you so much. Itís normally fear or straight up hatred. Both ******* stupid, but this is a thread about Ben Shapiro, so not really surprising.
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  #130  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:02 PM
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Not overly impressed - I don't see him actually arguing a point so much as deconstructing positions effectively. He is very good, but he isn't arguing so much for a stance, as dismantling semantic arguments (which is very important).

The issue with firearms and the second amendment, is interesting but it stems from the way US politics and polemics have become polarised to positions rather than arguments. The defence of the second amendment he puts is very easily destroyed (and he even uses the argument to do that on race later in the video).

Its a semantic trick used by lawyers fairly regularly, break down the statement, and undermine the key semantics of the argument, as you're not being cross examined yourself.

He has some points, but his arguments are generally utilisation of rhetoric and some skilled oratory techniques. They actually lack the same substance he himself criticises others for not having.

Its all just good Lawyering.
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  #131  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:09 PM
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Isnt that life in general
The clever an educated are on the whole going to get on in life better than not,and if you've got some money you can get a good lawyer
That's not racism that's evolution
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  #132  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Coastal Palace View Post
Now I've not been offensive towards you.

I'd ask the same courtesy.
You have no idea what those four asterisks stand for.
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  #133  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
You have no idea what those four asterisks stand for.
I'm guessing it's not nice.
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  #134  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sideburns7 View Post
One Halfwit out of how many,and that's your summing up
Itís not my summing up. Itís his. Thatís why it was in quotes.
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  #135  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDSdaEAGLE View Post
I've met transgender people. I've spoken with them about their decision to change.

In one case, prior to meeting him, I had no idea he'd been a woman before and I had clear ideas about gender and the use of him/her/he/she etc.

I spoke to him about it. His parents supported his change. They said he always behaved like their other son, rather than like a woman. This idea that it's a delusion or a mental illness is a very easy way to undermine or denigrate what is ultimately an incredible process to go through for people who are transgender. Why would people willingly differentiate themselves from the societal norms in such a way, if it wasn't for a very good reason?

So yeah, Shapiro isn't wrong about his use of a gender pronoun. He's not wrong to call someone a 'he' when they used to be a 'she' -- in biological terms, he's absolutely right. But the context is that for people who go through this process, who go through a process of alienation (which in many cases it is) they have to fight societal perception but also their own insecurities to be called a man.

It's not just about political correctness but about some kind of basic level of decency, isn't it? Why when it only affects a tiny percentage of the population is it such a defining issue?

Actually his argument is fundamentally incorrect - Someone who transitions from male to female, or vice versa is neither male or female, in comparison to others, but psychologically and experientially both male and female. The position of gender being one or other, only stands up if you remove the existential factor of being and experience from the equation and reduce the concept of gender down to physical characteristics.

He uses gender dysmorphia / associative disorder - But this contradicts his point, as this is a psychiatric condition, defined not on biological characteristics by displayed behavioural symptomology - which is entirely about the experience of being both male and female.

Even biologically its unfounded as bio-chemical definitions of male and female are far more important, and vary within the base definition of gender he uses. As such, because the difference within gender is a wide, as between a definition, it lacks real valuable scientific validity as a means of significant characterisation.

You can't actually obtain anything valuable about a person by saying they're male or female, other than their capacity for sexual participation and the primary sexual organs they possess. Where as if you view gender as being more than biological signifiers you get a wider range of defining identity and understanding of individuals.

Gender is actually very complex, and its only presented as simple by adopting broad characteristics.

As such, his argument is reductive to the point of being self fulfilling. Embracing an stance in which gender has no value at all beyond telling you which sexual organs a person possesses.

It also fails to understand or allow for intersex and asexual genders such as androgyny etc - and to an extent homosexuality (1), bisexuality, androgyny, intersex, asexuality etc... A fluid concept of gender allows you to incorporate more than useless binary definition.

(1) Homosexuality is significant here because we have situations where people have transgendered from male to female or vice versa, despite having a sexual attraction to the gender they're transferring to (i.e. a gay man trapped in a womans body, or a gay woman trapped in a mans body).

If we were to accept that these are just 'rare cases' we'd have to reject everything we know about neuroscience and brain anatomy, as these sciences are literally defined by how 'rare cases' differ from a statistical norm.

Sexuality and Gender, are incredibly complicated.
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  #136  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by sideburns7 View Post
Isnt that life in general
The clever an educated are on the whole going to get on in life better than not,and if you've got some money you can get a good lawyer
That's not racism that's evolution
Evolution is the means by which species develop from existent species, over huge period of time, by small deviation in beneficial hereditary traits within a context environmental benefit.

Biology doesn't deal with individuals, only species, and there is only one hominid species, homo sapiens.

That is the Shaprio method of discursive argument. Discredit the position of the speak, by undermining the validity of their argument, on semantic grounds.
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  #137  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Coastal Palace View Post
Or to quote Ben Shapiro - facts don't care about your feelings.
Problem is, there are no facts in social science (and even biology is very wary about statements of facts except in very defined contexts).
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  #138  
Old 11-10-2018, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Evolution is the means by which species develop from existent species, over huge period of time, by small deviation in beneficial hereditary traits within a context environmental benefit.

Biology doesn't deal with individuals, only species, and there is only one hominid species, homo sapiens.

That is the Shaprio method of discursive argument. Discredit the position of the speak, by undermining the validity of their argument, on semantic grounds.
I haven't wasted my time listening to him 30 seconds was enough for me but your education has been my downfall but you know what I meant and I will stand by that
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  #139  
Old 11-10-2018, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
Itís not my summing up. Itís his. Thatís why it was in quotes.
Why quote it then
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  #140  
Old 11-10-2018, 06:24 PM
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who gives a shit
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