Home | Forums | Gallery | Twitter
 
CPFC BBS  

Go Back   CPFC BBS » Off Topic » The Politics Forum

Notices

The Politics Forum Discussions that are wholly or mainly concerned with UK politics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1001  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:11 AM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 10,452
Rep Power: 21474840
Hpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Let’s not miss the fact though that the pro austerity and cuts types in labour in 2010 and 2015 are very different from labour now. Indeed many have spent a large amount of time trying to undermine labour under corbyn.
Lets not also miss the fact though that it is easy to say Tory austerity was shit and harmful, and if we had been in charge everything would have been better.

Shit loads of labour MPS that sat in parliament in 2010 and 2015 still sit on the labour benches. The labour policy has moved a bit to the left since Milliband; its still the same party.
Reply With Quote
  #1002  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:13 AM
Heb 7:4's Avatar
Heb 7:4 Heb 7:4 is offline
Its gonna be a lovely day
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 47,915
Rep Power: 21474853
Heb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
Again agreed. Universal credit is a shit idea and yes they should have thought about savings better but realistically considering labour wanted to cut more these tinkering of the edges would have, at best, left us in a similar position to where we find ourselves.

If labour had of had a policy of cut less or spend our way out of the recession in 2010, those bemoaning Tory austerity from labour camps would maybe have a point now in 2019. Simply pretending austerity was a Tory idea is just silly. Pretending labour austerity would have been more pleasant is even sillier.
I'm not sure it is a shit idea. Just awful and self-defeating implementation.

But the idea of a single benefit payment for your needs isn't in and of itself terrible. If the payment was a) on time and b) actually enough to cover your needs.

Unfortunately neither a nor b were the case. And the original idea (making work pay by letting people keep a large proportion of their benefits once they started working, to help ease the transition off of benefits) was completely dropped, because it cost money.
Reply With Quote
  #1003  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:13 AM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lewisham
Posts: 13,665
Rep Power: 21474851
cockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
Lets not also miss the fact though that it is easy to say Tory austerity was shit and harmful, and if we had been in charge everything would have been better.

Shit loads of labour MPS that sat in parliament in 2010 and 2015 still sit on the labour benches. The labour policy has moved a bit to the left since Milliband; its still the same party.
Well if the type of labour leadership that is about now was about then it would have been far better.

The PLP needs to change more IMO. But at least now there are policies that will benefit “the many”.
Reply With Quote
  #1004  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:20 AM
eddieskyclad's Avatar
eddieskyclad eddieskyclad is offline
johnkettleyisaweatherman
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Middlesbrough/Sheffield
Age: 42
Posts: 16,881
Rep Power: 21474855
eddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is here
__________________
Eddie Skyclad's On-Ride POV Rollercoaster Videos - Go on... watch some of them :p

Nearly 7 million views!!!

WOW!
Reply With Quote
  #1005  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:56 AM
GreatGonzo's Avatar
GreatGonzo GreatGonzo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 62,769
Rep Power: 21474857
GreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
Polls and the Lib Dems Survation have being doing polls in marginals. Cambridge was one. The latest was Portsmouth South a very tight Labour Tory marginal.
This has the Lib Dems ahead by 3 points on Tories and 6 points on Labour picking up a double digit increase at expense of both the other two. Brexit party in single figures.
You cannot claim Portsmouth South as a very tight Labour Tory marginal when the last 3 MPs from there have come from 3 different parties! Always a 3 way fight but Labour are usually 3rd, this win was a rare one for them.

The poll was also done when the Election was still hypothetical, it was agreed in the following few days.
Reply With Quote
  #1006  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:12 PM
Heb 7:4's Avatar
Heb 7:4 Heb 7:4 is offline
Its gonna be a lovely day
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 47,915
Rep Power: 21474853
Heb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieskyclad View Post
There's a lot of this about from Labour and it seems.a little counterproductive. I think most people know she was a junior minister in the coalition government. I guess the intent is to try to tie that to what she believes in, and what the LDs would deliver, but it's a bit desperate. Especially from the party whose first line of defence to criticisms of their own leaders pasts is to "look at the manifesto".

Still, with their bar graphs I don't think the LDs can complain about dodgy tactics. Some of them stretch the truth so much they're almost impressive.
Reply With Quote
  #1007  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:15 PM
GreatGonzo's Avatar
GreatGonzo GreatGonzo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 62,769
Rep Power: 21474857
GreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieskyclad View Post
Out of interest, how many of those were whilst a miniter in a coalition government where she was required to vote with the government?

How many of them have been since 2015 when the Lib Dems have been free to vote their conscience and policy free from being tied to a coalition?

Poeple suggest we should ditch FPTP and have PR but are unable to grasp the realities of coalition politics and punish the parties for entering them.

THe reality we have now is that if Parliament is hung next month, the Lib Dems have refused a coalition with either main party. That is likely to mean the SNP having to make up numbers and we all know the price for doing that.

IMO it is entirely possible that despite their proclamtions that they are trying to keep the union together the biggest risk to the union post election could well be the Lib Dems refusal to work with Corbyn/Johnson paving the way for indyref2. I still hope that Labour will be too far behind to have the numbers still and SNP might not sell their souls entirely for a 2nd referendum and join the Tories.
Reply With Quote
  #1008  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:15 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 10,452
Rep Power: 21474840
Hpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Well if the type of labour leadership that is about now was about then it would have been far better.

The PLP needs to change more IMO. But at least now there are policies that will benefit “the many”.
If JC was promising to spend spend spend in 2010 he would have been laughed at. The country was pretty ****ed and it was a virtually unanimous thought that we had to tighten our belts to get out of the mess. Even the greens agreed. The only question was by how much and how quickly.

If we held the 2010 election now in 2019 with the benefit of hindsight you might have a point. We haven’t invented time travel yet though.
Reply With Quote
  #1009  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:19 PM
Maz's Avatar
Maz Maz is offline
Semper Idem
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: A place where nothing ever happens.
Posts: 156,855
Rep Power: 21474854
Maz has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieskyclad View Post

What crap graphics.


(The message is also crap as well : but now everyone can use MS Paint, we are seeing the woeful Americanisation of UK politics).
__________________
..
..G
abba Gabba Hey

.פɐppɐ פɐppɐ Hǝʎ


Reply With Quote
  #1010  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:26 PM
Brett Brett is offline
Binned by Muderators
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Age: 41
Posts: 28,765
Rep Power: 21474856
Brett Sam the man is hereBrett Sam the man is hereBrett Sam the man is hereBrett Sam the man is hereBrett Sam the man is hereBrett Sam the man is hereBrett Sam the man is hereBrett Sam the man is hereBrett Sam the man is hereBrett Sam the man is hereBrett Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
I'm not sure it is a shit idea. Just awful and self-defeating implementation.

But the idea of a single benefit payment for your needs isn't in and of itself terrible. If the payment was a) on time and b) actually enough to cover your needs.

Unfortunately neither a nor b were the case. And the original idea (making work pay by letting people keep a large proportion of their benefits once they started working, to help ease the transition off of benefits) was completely dropped, because it cost money.
After almost a decade with it, they really need to decouple the housing costs from it. The tech is there to get your money off the council without having to claim twice and at least the council has some idea of the area in which you live.

We now live in a time where the process is so incongruous, you have some very lucky people getting their rent paid twice, some very unlucky people who cannot get any help with their rent despite being a nominal qualifier, and a whole swathe of people in the middle getting some help, a great deal later than they ever got in when claiming housing benefit.
__________________
In Soviet Russia, Parish Points claim you.
Reply With Quote
  #1011  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:51 PM
cantspell cantspell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,293
Rep Power: 21474852
cantspell Sam the man is herecantspell Sam the man is herecantspell Sam the man is herecantspell Sam the man is herecantspell Sam the man is herecantspell Sam the man is herecantspell Sam the man is herecantspell Sam the man is herecantspell Sam the man is herecantspell Sam the man is herecantspell Sam the man is here
Mogg on Grenfell confirms he is a disgusting piece of shit
__________________
BHA via NSC - All the gear and no idea (6 April 2015)
Reply With Quote
  #1012  
Old 05-11-2019, 01:12 PM
Spindle's Avatar
Spindle Spindle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 9,990
Rep Power: 21474839
Spindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Don’t agree. Austerity economics made the economy worse.

It’s not like there wasn’t wealth. The richest 1000 people in the U.K. went from a wealth of 200 billion to over 700 billion during austerity.
^^^ The real reason for 'austerity'. It was a complete con.
__________________
"You lot [BHA Supporters club] actively tried to get your ground turned into a retail park" - Adlerhorst
https://www.northstandchat.com/showt...secret-history
Reply With Quote
  #1013  
Old 05-11-2019, 01:15 PM
dogstar721 dogstar721 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,920
Rep Power: 21474845
dogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
Lets not also miss the fact though that it is easy to say Tory austerity was shit and harmful, and if we had been in charge everything would have been better.

Shit loads of labour MPS that sat in parliament in 2010 and 2015 still sit on the labour benches. The labour policy has moved a bit to the left since Milliband; its still the same party.
Well you can't be held accountable for what you weren't in a position to do, Governments are only accountable for what they do, shadow governments tend to only be held accountable for what they support governments doing.

Labour will always look great over austerity, just as they'll look bad over PFI (an irony of politics is that the Conservatives have always held Labour to task over Private Funded Initiatives).

Ask the Lib Dems, arguably austerity support and tuition fees almost destroyed them as a party, and certainly led to them being on the verge of irrelvence. Brexit might well have saved them from a slow electorial decline into oblivion.

Opposition is always easier than being in power. Its basically oppose everything, unless its a war, terrorism, the Royal Family or human interest story.
Reply With Quote
  #1014  
Old 05-11-2019, 01:15 PM
Spindle's Avatar
Spindle Spindle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 9,990
Rep Power: 21474839
Spindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
What public services would labour have cut (bearing in mind they wanted to cut more that the coalition cut) that wouldn't have harmed people?
I think you have your answer about the wealthiest increasing their wealth several fold. Do you think Labour would've done that then?
__________________
"You lot [BHA Supporters club] actively tried to get your ground turned into a retail park" - Adlerhorst
https://www.northstandchat.com/showt...secret-history
Reply With Quote
  #1015  
Old 05-11-2019, 01:16 PM
dogstar721 dogstar721 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,920
Rep Power: 21474845
dogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
^^^ The real reason for 'austerity'. It was a complete con.
The real reason for many Conservative main policies is pretty much, riches to the rich and the lie of the trickle down effect.
Reply With Quote
  #1016  
Old 05-11-2019, 01:16 PM
GreatGonzo's Avatar
GreatGonzo GreatGonzo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 62,769
Rep Power: 21474857
GreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
^^^ The real reason for 'austerity'. It was a complete con.
Why did Labour propose austerity then? Were they attempting to make the rich richer too? What about the Green Party?
Reply With Quote
  #1017  
Old 05-11-2019, 01:16 PM
Spindle's Avatar
Spindle Spindle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 9,990
Rep Power: 21474839
Spindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is hereSpindle Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
I thought this was interesting





Tories in a nutshell. I wonder which ones Gonzo, little al and macstar fall into?
__________________
"You lot [BHA Supporters club] actively tried to get your ground turned into a retail park" - Adlerhorst
https://www.northstandchat.com/showt...secret-history
Reply With Quote
  #1018  
Old 05-11-2019, 01:21 PM
GreatGonzo's Avatar
GreatGonzo GreatGonzo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 62,769
Rep Power: 21474857
GreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is hereGreatGonzo Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
Tories in a nutshell. I wonder which ones Gonzo, little al and macstar fall into?
6th - you?
Reply With Quote
  #1019  
Old 05-11-2019, 01:22 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 10,452
Rep Power: 21474840
Hpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
I think you have your answer about the wealthiest increasing their wealth several fold. Do you think Labour would've done that then?
What vital services do you reckon the top 1000 wealthiest rely on day by day? What services would you have removed to ensure the rich didn't get richer and cut UK spending?

Cuddly labour austerity cutting services for the rich
Reply With Quote
  #1020  
Old 05-11-2019, 01:24 PM
N Herts Eagle N Herts Eagle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sturton Lincs
Age: 64
Posts: 10,017
Rep Power: 21474854
N Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is hereN Herts Eagle Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
You cannot claim Portsmouth South as a very tight Labour Tory marginal when the last 3 MPs from there have come from 3 different parties! Always a 3 way fight but Labour are usually 3rd, this win was a rare one for them.

The poll was also done when the Election was still hypothetical, it was agreed in the following few days.
I was comparing to 2017 it's one of a number of what can be called the new marginals. Certainly a seat Labour would need to hold if at all possible.
That's why other seats particularly in the North will be interesting. Whilst it might be right the North was more Brexit there are a number of Remain votes in both Labour and Tory. If the election splits on Brexit alone it could see a number of shocks which is why the next few weeks will be about who can move the agenda away from Brexit and NHS us an obvious one.
It's also interesting to note the 18 to 34 move to Lib Dems how Labour wins those could decide the election.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
BUNGLE
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.