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  #121  
Old 29-10-2019, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
I am trying to think of a legitimate reason as to why people with 'settled status' should not be allowed to vote in the next election, given they have very recently been granted 'settled status' and the right to permanently reside, pay tax and have conveniently recently supplied the government with their ID and home address.
I don't disagree.

I am asking the question as to whether it is possible to ensure all of them are able to have a vote in 6 weeks time?

If we were talking the next election 6 months a year or more down the line then i would agree, but is it possible. I don't know, and i doubt anyone on here does either.
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  #122  
Old 29-10-2019, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
In case you missed it, if you are 16 or 17 you can join the army but you cannot be sent to a war zone until you are 18.

You can have a child at any age it is biologically possible to have a child.

You can pay tax at any age.
I'm aware of that but you can still be in the army. You can only legally have a child at 16 upwards and rightly so. Also you can pay tax at any age, but you can only work from 16 and pay tax on wages.

I assume you would agree with EU citizens getting the vote?
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  #123  
Old 29-10-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Or a Corbynite.



And yes it does mean they shouldn’t be allowed the vote unless there is a reason you have to allow them the vote, like they are legally an adult. We have to let Brexiters and Corbynites vote if they are legally adults despite their obvious issues. We don’t have to do that with people who are not legally adults.


But we will tax them and allow them to join the army. Righto.
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  #124  
Old 29-10-2019, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Or a Corbynite.



And yes it does mean they shouldn’t be allowed the vote unless there is a reason you have to allow them the vote, like they are legally an adult. We have to let Brexiters and Corbynites vote if they are legally adults despite their obvious issues. We don’t have to do that with people who are not legally adults.


It’s the Corbynites that have saved this country from a Brexit shitshow.
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  #125  
Old 29-10-2019, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
In case you missed it, if you are 16 or 17 you can join the army but you cannot be sent to a war zone until you are 18.

You can have a child at any age it is biologically possible to have a child.

You can pay tax at any age.
True

True, but someone will have broken the law.

True, but 16 and 17 year olds pay National Insurance, under-16s wouldn't. (I think.)
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  #126  
Old 29-10-2019, 02:51 PM
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According to Sky, amendments on 16/17 year olds and EU nationals are expected to get ruled out of order. I don't know why.
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  #127  
Old 29-10-2019, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
True

True, but someone will have broken the law.

True, but 16 and 17 year olds pay National Insurance, under-16s wouldn't. (I think.)
1. Thank you
2. Probably but Social services do not automatically remove children from teenage parents, so should 15 year old Chloe now be allowed a vote?
3. It depends how much they earn. If they are over the threshold they pay tax. I am not aware of any legislation that says no tax for the under 16s. Do you think Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watson paid no tax when they earned all those millions as child actors?

We have an age of majority for a reason. It might be silly that it is 18 as opposed to some other age or point in life, but it is there for a reason.
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  #128  
Old 29-10-2019, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
I don't disagree.

I am asking the question as to whether it is possible to ensure all of them are able to have a vote in 6 weeks time?

If we were talking the next election 6 months a year or more down the line then i would agree, but is it possible. I don't know, and i doubt anyone on here does either.
I appreciate the government is shit at IT but surely it wouldn't take a genius to download the names and addresses on one data base and transfer them to another.
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  #129  
Old 29-10-2019, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
I don't disagree.

I am asking the question as to whether it is possible to ensure all of them are able to have a vote in 6 weeks time?

If we were talking the next election 6 months a year or more down the line then i would agree, but is it possible. I don't know, and i doubt anyone on here does either.
If the amendments were passed to allow 16 year olds and settled residents to vote then presumably it would be impossible to agree the legislation and get the new voters registered in time.

To my mind that would mean the election couldn't take place on 12 December. Maybe that is the twist.
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  #130  
Old 29-10-2019, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
According to Sky, amendments on 16/17 year olds and EU nationals are expected to get ruled out of order. I don't know why.
Unenforceable in the timeframe would be my guess.
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  #131  
Old 29-10-2019, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
Thanks for that. I am not sure whether I like it as a principle or not.

I have zero problem with dual nationality. My gut feeling I think though is if you reside in one country that is where your 'vote' should be.

Likewise you wouldn't wish to pay income tax in two countries, or do dual national service for example.
I have worked and paid taxes (not income tax) in two countries in one year, several times. And once 3 countries, where i did pay two lots of income tax. Americans working abroad always do this. I find the idea that you can only have a stake in one country extremely old fashioned. The modern world is far more fluid and layered than that.

Last edited by chelmsfordeagle; 29-10-2019 at 03:00 PM.
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  #132  
Old 29-10-2019, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
3. It depends how much they earn. If they are over the threshold they pay tax. I am not aware of any legislation that says no tax for the under 16s. Do you think Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watson paid no tax when they earned all those millions as child actors?
I agreed they paid tax - I said they don't pay National Insurance.
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  #133  
Old 29-10-2019, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe85 View Post
It’s the Corbynites that have saved this country from a Brexit shitshow.
I do appreciate Corbynites like to give Corbyn credit for things that are nothing to do with him, but claiming credit for something that hasn’t happened (we’re not saved, we might be about to be very unsaved) and that frankly Corbyn has enabled is taking the piss.
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  #134  
Old 29-10-2019, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by stevek View Post
I agreed they paid tax - I said they don't pay National Insurance.
I misread. Apologies. Pretty sure you are right about NI.
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  #135  
Old 29-10-2019, 03:03 PM
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Good point just made by SNP that EU citizens are already on the electoral role because of local elections.

It really would take nothing to give them the vote.
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  #136  
Old 29-10-2019, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
I appreciate the government is shit at IT but surely it wouldn't take a genius to download the names and addresses on one data base and transfer them to another.
Ian Blackford has said EU citizens are already on the register as they can vote in local elections so that might answer that one.
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  #137  
Old 29-10-2019, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
I wouldn’t trust a 17 year old to open a can of beans that was already open. The vote? Not in a gazillion years.
Because you don’t know any. I’d rather most 17 year olds I know had the bote than 98% of the people on here.
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  #138  
Old 29-10-2019, 03:08 PM
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Gotta say the SNP are the best debaters in parliament.

Just now BJ goes out the chamber and Blackford asks if he is off to dig his ditch

They really are very good on making their points and getting policies across.
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  #139  
Old 29-10-2019, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Unenforceable in the timeframe would be my guess.
Probably - though at first glance that seems more the case for 16/17 year olds than EU nationals.

For what it's worth, I'm not sure what I feel about 16/17 year olds voting. On balance, I'm probably in favour. But I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be rushed through.
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  #140  
Old 29-10-2019, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Ian Blackford has said EU citizens are already on the register as they can vote in local elections so that might answer that one.
Therefore this vote will be a vote on whether those with settled status have the right of franchise.

It would take a massive bell end to suggest they shouldn't have the right to vote, right? Lets see who votes in that direction.
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