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  #181  
Old 06-08-2008, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GreatGonzo
No he has shown catagorically and in explicit terms for all to see that he does not want to be at the club.

If we play him he will deliberately keep giving the ball away, give away needless fouls in dangerous areas and if given the opportunity will look to put one past Speroni!





At least that is what some will have you believe it would seem.
Totally agree. Spot on with your assessment of some people's views.

Ben Watson is a good lad and a consummate professional. I can see why NW has done what he has done but BW should still play if he's here, just like CM and MH played last season.
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  #182  
Old 06-08-2008, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Beanie
What a wonderful message that sends to the players who are prepared to commit for a few seasons at least - we'd rather give your place in the side to a player who wants out. Can't see that being good for the team as a unit. We've let Morrison go, and I think he could be a bigger miss than Watson, we've also spent 1m to replace Watson. Somebody has to kick their heals in the reserves - which should it be, the guy who wants to be at Palace this time next season or the guy running down his contract to leave? No malice toward Watson - his choice, but now he's made it the club should move on.
I have not seen one report which quotes Ben Watson wanting to leave or not play for Crystal Palace. He has decided against signing an improved contract. That is not the same. If you are saying that by not signing an improved(rememeber. WATSON STILL HAS A VALID/SIGNED CONTRACT WITH PALACE) is = to a player not wanting to play for the club, then I think you are mistaken. A contract is a contract, Watson is still honouring his with Palace, if anything, Palace are in the wrong here as they have told Watson that although, he is under contract for another year, if he will not sign an extension, then he is dropped. Watson, imo has given good service to the club and in this case I don't agree with the way he is being portrayed and treated by Warnock.
IMO, a player like Watson, who has served the club well for 5 years in the first team, should have the right to leave his current club at the end of the contract, without the current club expecting a monetary figure in return. Watson is not doing a Bostock!
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  #183  
Old 06-08-2008, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sydnsteve
We, of course, would all turn our noses up at 15k a week if we could get it.
FFS, what do you want from him? He has made no fuss, no press statements, is willing to see out his contract or go if Palace get an offer. He just doesn't want to stay after 6 years. Is that now a criminal offence? The whole point of a contract is that you honour it, which is what he is doing.
It is most unlikely that ANY Champs club will offer 15K (as his agent well knows), but running down his contract and getting a large signing on fee will also be rewarding. Palace will be the losers: small compensation and a year's wages for a peripheral player hanging around (like the Kooch ?)
Watson is within his rights, and the club allowing Morrison and Hudson to do the same has already set the precedent. I've always encouraged Watson, but that doesn't mean I can't lament that the club will forego a transfer fee to enrich the player and his agent, but that's the glorious "Bosman slave ruling" for you.
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  #184  
Old 06-08-2008, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pedro
I think a few on here are being rather harsh towards Watson. He has a year on his contract and he has made Palace aware that at this current time he has no intention of signing a new one. Unlike players such as Lampard he is not using other clubs interest in him as leverage to get a better deal, he is not playing games or mucking the club around he has just been honest about seeing his future away from Selhurst Park.
He has not handed in a transfer request and it is the club who have decided to sell him now so that they can get some much needed money into the club.
Watson is not duty bound to sign a new contract just because one has been offered and is totally within his rights to wait for the best deal that suits him and basically the cheaper the transfer fee the more likely he is to achieve the 15k a week that he is apparently asking.
Do not be surprised to see him move on in January for 1m as at the moment it appears a 2m fee and 15k a week package is a non starter for any of the clubs who have so far shown an interest.
What I cannot stomach are the likes of Berbatov and Ronaldo signing lucratic long term contracts and then trying to break them months later for what they feel are greener pastures however I have greater sympathy for a player who has honoured his contract without making waves (like Watson) and now wants to try pastures new.
Agree with all that, but there's no point in selling for 1m in Jan if we're challenging for promotion.

Here are the facts:

1) He wants 15k a week and preferably Prem football
2) We are happy to sell him but only for the right price - one at which no club wants to offer him 15k a week.

The solution is not to reduce our asking price. The fact he's under 24 gives us more bargaining power, and we should not give in to his demands.

We're not going to get the 2m we want.

The only solution is for the club to tell Ben that he's staying until the end of the season and to persuade him to sign a contract with us if we are promoted.

Ben is going to get the money he wants by next summer if he plays this season. I think it's fair that in return for putting him into the first-team squad that he agrees to sign for us for 15k a week, if we are promoted.
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Last edited by glaziers fan; 06-08-2008 at 03:44 PM.
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  #185  
Old 06-08-2008, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Beanie
What a wonderful message that sends to the players who are prepared to commit for a few seasons at least - we'd rather give your place in the side to a player who wants out. Can't see that being good for the team as a unit. We've let Morrison go, and I think he could be a bigger miss than Watson, we've also spent 1m to replace Watson. Somebody has to kick their heals in the reserves - which should it be, the guy who wants to be at Palace this time next season or the guy running down his contract to leave? No malice toward Watson - his choice, but now he's made it the club should move on.
Exactly right Beanie.

Warnock has every right to make a choice that he wants players to commit to more than one year of their contract to play for Palace otherwise they risk of being cashed in

Just like Ben has ever right to run down his contract, but it's not his choice where he plays or not and sit in the reserves.

If Carle's form is good then he plays as he has committed to the future of the club.

He might not be doing a Lampard, Pedro (which i always despise in players) as Ben is happy to see out his contract, but at the same time no-one will offer 15k in the championship, and he and his agent know it.

The risk he takes if he doesn't play much first team football next year is that his stock will fall, but again it's his choice (but not good for team morale I would have thought).

True Ben hasn't gone to the press and acted like a big baby which i respect, but if my boss asked me to play a leading active part in a large 2 year project, and i replyed, "sure no problem, but i will probably be off in a year", I know what response I would get.

Warnock is looking after CPFC best interests and I applaud him for it, even though Ben would always be welcome back in my eyes for all his previous efforts.
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  #186  
Old 06-08-2008, 04:05 PM
Freddy Kurz Freddy Kurz is offline
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Watson is not currently worth 15,000 per week, which is why he
has so far been unable to find another club prepared to pay him
that amount. Palace are not in a position to pay him a salary
he isn't worth.

What I'm unable to understand is why so many Palace fans are
spending so much time sympathising with a player who in about
a year's time will be able to join another club, negotiate a new
contract with them, and deny our club any compensation.

I would much prefer that Watson signed an extension to his
Palace contract at the generous terms offered, but failing
that I want to see him sold now to the highest bidder,
so that Palace can maximise his remaining transfer
value and so help our club to strengthen its first-
team squad for the 2008/09 season.

This is the reality of Watson and Palace's position.
All the rest is sentimental and emotional twaddle.

Last edited by Freddy Kurz; 06-08-2008 at 04:08 PM.
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  #187  
Old 06-08-2008, 04:12 PM
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Not sympathising FK, just seeing it as it is. He is an employee at a football club with a fixed contract. If we need the cash to buy a forward (without whom i think we have zero chance of promotion) we should sell now to the highest bidder. I hope we sell him as he doesn't want to be here, but if he is still here we should play him if we need to.
Many players have long contracts then don't honour them. He has not done that. What has happened i suspect is that QPR have offered him 15k a week, but have put in a low offer hoping Palace will be forced to accept it. If this is the case, i hope we don't.
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  #188  
Old 06-08-2008, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Freddy Kurz

What I'm unable to understand is why so many Palace fans are
spending so much time sympathising with a player who in about
a year's time will be able to join another club, negotiate a new
contract with them, and deny our club any compensation.
A lot of the younger members have stars in their eyes whenever we are discussing players, Freddy - as far as most of them are concerned the lads can do no wrong.

They'll grow out of it eventually but in a way it's quite nice that they're generally not as cynical as us old 'uns.
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  #189  
Old 07-08-2008, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AJ
I have not seen one report which quotes Ben Watson wanting to leave or not play for Crystal Palace. He has decided against signing an improved contract. That is not the same. If you are saying that by not signing an improved(rememeber. WATSON STILL HAS A VALID/SIGNED CONTRACT WITH PALACE) is = to a player not wanting to play for the club, then I think you are mistaken. A contract is a contract, Watson is still honouring his with Palace, if anything, Palace are in the wrong here as they have told Watson that although, he is under contract for another year, if he will not sign an extension, then he is dropped. Watson, imo has given good service to the club and in this case I don't agree with the way he is being portrayed and treated by Warnock.
IMO, a player like Watson, who has served the club well for 5 years in the first team, should have the right to leave his current club at the end of the contract, without the current club expecting a monetary figure in return. Watson is not doing a Bostock!
Of course Watson has a contract, and of course Palace have to honour it, but that does not in any way say they are wrong in not playing him, there are a lot of players with contracts who don't play. Of course Watson has the right to walk away at the end of the deal, but that does not mean that there will be no consequences of doing so. It's about short term or long term planning. NW is looking to build long term, so there is no point building with somebody who has clearly shown that they will not be at the club long term. As has been said, no company with a two or three year project would give a major role in it to somebody they know won't see it through, so why should Palace give a role to somebody who has chosen to leave? As Watson is honouring his contract with Palace, whilst doing what he believes is best for him, so Palace are honouring their contract with Watson whilst doing what they believe is best for the club.

As for the comparison with Bostock - what did Bostock do? He exercised his right not to sign a contract and so left Palace with much less than he was worth. What is Watson doing? He is exercising his right not to sign a contract and so leave Palace for much less than he is worth. It's exactly the same - the only difference is that Watson has built up a stock of goodwill over the years that makes it acceptable, and has kept quiet about it.

Last edited by Beanie; 07-08-2008 at 08:25 AM.
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  #190  
Old 07-08-2008, 09:31 AM
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No Beanie. Watson never said he would play for Palace for nothing, or that he was a dyed in the wool Palace fan (I've no idea who he supports). And he told Palace with over a year left on his contract that he would not be re-signing. Bostock, however, told Warnock he would sign and then did not. The situations are in no way comparable.

Obviously if he stays then Palace can play him or not. I think Warnock is quite right, for a variety of reasons including prevention of injury, not to play Ben until he resigns (looks impossible) or it is 31st august. At that point he should be played if the team needs him, but not if it doesn't.
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  #191  
Old 07-08-2008, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Beanie

As for the comparison with Bostock - what did Bostock do?
In my view, Bostock lied or mislead Palace in order to promote himself. Had Palace known that Bostock had no intention of signing for the Palace, I am sure he wouldn't have played for the first team. Had Bostock not played for the first team, would Spuds have even signed him?

On the other hand, Watson has never lied or mislead Palace. In fact at the begining of last season, Watson was quoted as saying he wanted to play in the Premiership and if it wasn't with Palace, he would have to consider his options at the end of the season, which he is doing now.
I do see that NW is building for the future, but, part of that process is to use all resources until you reach that goal. If Watson is short term, but, can be usefull and instrumental in a successful push for promotion, use him.

I actually believe that NW has 2 plans one involves selling Watson now, the other is playing Watson(if he isn't sold). NW would be a fool, yes a fool to refuse to play a player of Ben Watson's ability. Contract or no contract. Remember how Symons and then Dowie played Julian Gray in the last promotion season? Gray was out of contract and I think Palace played him on a month to month rolling contract. I don't recall howls or boos from the staduim every time he created something?
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  #192  
Old 07-08-2008, 02:05 PM
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If Palace were to get promoted or be in the frame by January then Ben would have a re-think if he is still with us.
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  #193  
Old 07-08-2008, 02:25 PM
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I don't understand the idealistic notion that Ben would all of a sudden sign a new contract if we were promoted when previous experience has shown that it doesn't often work like that. The chances are that if we were in fact promoted with Ben playing a key role he would have a lot more leverage to expect a move to an established Premiership team. He knows, and would know in this particular situation, that he'll be due a reasonable signing on fee when he moves to a new club. Expecting that he would all of a sudden renege on his decision to move if we were in contention for promotion is more than a little naive.
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  #194  
Old 07-08-2008, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sydnsteve
No Beanie. Watson never said he would play for Palace for nothing, or that he was a dyed in the wool Palace fan (I've no idea who he supports). And he told Palace with over a year left on his contract that he would not be re-signing. Bostock, however, told Warnock he would sign and then did not. The situations are in no way comparable.

Obviously if he stays then Palace can play him or not. I think Warnock is quite right, for a variety of reasons including prevention of injury, not to play Ben until he resigns (looks impossible) or it is 31st august. At that point he should be played if the team needs him, but not if it doesn't.
To be honest I don't much care what any 16 year old says in that sort of context, by the nature of the person it's hardly likely to be for life. The practical upshot of their actions is exactly the same. Watson has just gone about it in a better way, (as you'd expect, but don't always get, with somebody that much older) which is why people aren't getting stressed about this as they did about Bostock.
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  #195  
Old 07-08-2008, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AndyStreet
I don't understand the idealistic notion that Ben would all of a sudden sign a new contract if we were promoted when previous experience has shown that it doesn't often work like that. The chances are that if we were in fact promoted with Ben playing a key role he would have a lot more leverage to expect a move to an established Premiership team. He knows, and would know in this particular situation, that he'll be due a reasonable signing on fee when he moves to a new club. Expecting that he would all of a sudden renege on his decision to move if we were in contention for promotion is more than a little naive.
I dare say that if we were promoted we could offer him what he wants now - 15k a week and prem football.

However I am not naive and know theat if he did play a key role, someone would probably offer him 20k a week and prem football. Or even an established team offering him 15k a week he might go for.

However, he has been pretty straight right from the off. We knew he wanted to move if we were not promoted. His agent has obviously told Ben that this is the time to get big money.

However if Ben was to look at the players who have left Palace (I'm thinking of Hopkin especially), then I reckon he would be better off staying put and proving himself in the Prem before moving if we were relegated.

Whether we get to see what kind of character he is remains to be seen, but by all accounts he has matured as a person as well as as a player.

I'm still hoping he's not sold.
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  #196  
Old 07-08-2008, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AndyStreet
I don't understand the idealistic notion that Ben would all of a sudden sign a new contract if we were promoted when previous experience has shown that it doesn't often work like that. The chances are that if we were in fact promoted with Ben playing a key role he would have a lot more leverage to expect a move to an established Premiership team. He knows, and would know in this particular situation, that he'll be due a reasonable signing on fee when he moves to a new club. Expecting that he would all of a sudden renege on his decision to move if we were in contention for promotion is more than a little naive.
Spot on. Zoltan Gera anyone.
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:01 PM
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Wanted to throw another name into the ring in why Palace should play Watson with or without him signing a contract. Kris Commons. How important was he in getting Forest promoted?
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AJ
Wanted to throw another name into the ring in why Palace should play Watson with or without him signing a contract. Kris Commons. How important was he in getting Forest promoted?
But they hadn't already replaced him - Palace have replaced Watson.
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  #199  
Old 07-08-2008, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainbow_child
A fully committed Tom Soares is a far better player than a half committed Ben Watson any day of the week.

When are people going to get over it Ben Watson is off & hes just another Gray or Routledge who thinks the grass is greener & he is to big now for Crystal Palace F.C.

Good riddance Ben
Well thats plainly utter b*ll*cks. What would you rather Ben going on a free at the end of the season? Notice he is'nt whining or moaning in the press he turning up trainning. Warnock has been complimentary about him. The club have asked to him sign a new contract extension well before time and he has said no. Fair enough, he has said many times in the previous two seasons he wants to play in the premiership. When asked if with Palace he has said hopefully, implying heavily last season if we did'nt he would be looking to move at the end of his contract .

This is nothing like Routledge or Gray and if you can't see it or understand this then frankly your opinion is adding nothing to this debate as you plainly are trotting out the standard tripe when an 'important' player leaves a club without engaging your brain.
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  #200  
Old 07-08-2008, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by glaziers fan
I dare say that if we were promoted we could offer him what he wants now - 15k a week and prem football.
I personally dont think he is worth 15k a week, or good enough for premiership football.

If he was, and is available for only 1.5m dont you think a premiership team would have done it by now?
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