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  #41  
Old 09-02-2019, 10:59 AM
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  #42  
Old 09-02-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Woosie View Post
Weird post. I didn't say that those who never played or had sports talent at a club shouldn't get any support. You made it mutually exclusive not me. I mean it's also a totally different environment as well.

Football clubs have millions of pounds and significantly affect the lives of young people, they have them full-time from the age of 16 and force them to follow a certain path for at least two years, there are so many extra pressures on them as a result of being full-time at a football academy and they are often away from their families etc. These kids have to choose between potentially having a career in football or giving up on their education. You can't train full-time at a football club and study for 4 A Levels and then go to Uni.

There is no reason that football clubs should not then take some responsibility for trying to help them that when things don't go well and they get let go at 18, 19, 20, 21 etc that they having told them to commit absolutely everything they have to making it professional and selling them the dream telling them to believe in being a pro footballer, smash all of this into pieces by letting them go.

Nobody is saying that the club is responsible for what has happened to Ben Kudjodji, more that it's possible that with more intervention there was a lesser chance of him going down this route. That's not saying that they are directly at fault.
Your life isnt over at 18 unless you choose it to be. Nothing to stop these kids getting qulaifications after they are released.
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  #43  
Old 09-02-2019, 02:14 PM
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I can't believe he is 29. Shows how time flies.
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  #44  
Old 09-02-2019, 06:30 PM
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Ryan_the_eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRyan_the_eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRyan_the_eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRyan_the_eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRyan_the_eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRyan_the_eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRyan_the_eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRyan_the_eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRyan_the_eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRyan_the_eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRyan_the_eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
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Agree completely. Football doesn't care enough about what happens to its discarded players. It sells them the dream and then dashes it with no consideration as to potential effects.

Of course individuals can make their own choices, and it is not to excuse anyone turning to crime, but there are significant social factors which need to be taken into account.

One player who was tipped for the top at 17 at Palace was from a very poor family in Brixton, with several siblings and he was the main earner on his first pro deal. That's a lot of pressure for a kid to burden along with the other aspects of trying to make it at as a pro.

But when players are released there's very little, if any support even now. I would say that things are much better than they were 10 years ago in terms of ensuring kids get some sort of education even when they are full time in an academy but it's not really great.

I would say that generally the sort of people who end up committing crimes like this would probably do so regardless of whether they had been in a football academy and let go, but had he been given more support then you'd suggest the likelihood of offending may decrease.

Very complicated but certainly football clubs should do more for kids released from academies.
Genunily baffles me that every top level club doesn't put every academy scholar through their coaching badges. Seems like the sort of thing that could help improve them as a player as well as offering opurtunities if they don't make it as a pro.
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  #45  
Old 09-02-2019, 08:05 PM
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Your life isnt over at 18 unless you choose it to be. Nothing to stop these kids getting qulaifications after they are released.
Again, no one is saying that. You're choosing to read what you want to in this.
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  #46  
Old 10-02-2019, 11:58 PM
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My point is, I dont think the club is anyway responsible for ‘support’ after leaving the club, maybe in help finding another club on notification of end of contract but that is it.
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  #47  
Old 11-02-2019, 07:57 AM
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My point is, I dont think the club is anyway responsible for Ďsupportí after leaving the club, maybe in help finding another club on notification of end of contract but that is it.
I think morally all clubs are.

We take a kid on at 14. He looks like the next big thing and focuses on 'making it' for the next 5 years. Despite having a good attitude and coaching, he doesn't kick on as planned and the club let him go just before he is 20. He's now going into the big wide world with an NVQ in fitness and leisure, and so can probably land a job at a leisure centre.

That kid has been used to some extent and now has limited prospects. If he's lucky enough to come from a stable family that can afford for him to stay at home, he can go to college and get a qualification in plumbing, electrics, etc, or maybe grab A-levels and head off to university afterwards. But that will still put him a good couple of years behind peers of his own age.

And what if he comes from not such a great background, and mum can't afford to keep him at home without him earning his keep? He'll most likely end up in a low paid job, with little career prospects. When he's had the footballer's lifestyle flashed in front of his face at the training ground on a regular basis, it's easy to see how it can be tempting to go after big money via dodgy means.

As much as we take the piss out of the Americans, one thing that they appear to have right is their youth set ups at university. If you're a potential basketball, American football, golf superstar, you will still pick up a proper qualification on the side in case things don't work out on the pitch.

With the amount of cash in the game these days, there is no excuse for any top level club releasing young men without giving them a fair chance of gaining decent qualifications.
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  #48  
Old 11-02-2019, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
I think morally all clubs are.

We take a kid on at 14. He looks like the next big thing and focuses on 'making it' for the next 5 years. Despite having a good attitude and coaching, he doesn't kick on as planned and the club let him go just before he is 20. He's now going into the big wide world with an NVQ in fitness and leisure, and so can probably land a job at a leisure centre.

That kid has been used to some extent and now has limited prospects. If he's lucky enough to come from a stable family that can afford for him to stay at home, he can go to college and get a qualification in plumbing, electrics, etc, or maybe grab A-levels and head off to university afterwards. But that will still put him a good couple of years behind peers of his own age.

And what if he comes from not such a great background, and mum can't afford to keep him at home without him earning his keep? He'll most likely end up in a low paid job, with little career prospects. When he's had the footballer's lifestyle flashed in front of his face at the training ground on a regular basis, it's easy to see how it can be tempting to go after big money via dodgy means.

As much as we take the piss out of the Americans, one thing that they appear to have right is their youth set ups at university. If you're a potential basketball, American football, golf superstar, you will still pick up a proper qualification on the side in case things don't work out on the pitch.

With the amount of cash in the game these days, there is no excuse for any top level club releasing young men without giving them a fair chance of gaining decent qualifications.
Very good post.
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  #49  
Old 11-02-2019, 08:10 AM
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We did have a tie in with Oasis Academy near Shirley, but Iíve read thatís coming to an end soon. Wan-Bissaka was there.

I do think clubs should ensure the boys have a decent education. They canít need them to train all day, every day, so there must be numerous hours to fill in which they could be either doing some GCSEs, BTechs, that sort of thing.

Not only would that improve their chances of employment if they donít make it as footballers, but it helps make them more rounded individuals.
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  #50  
Old 11-02-2019, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
I think morally all clubs are.

We take a kid on at 14. He looks like the next big thing and focuses on 'making it' for the next 5 years. Despite having a good attitude and coaching, he doesn't kick on as planned and the club let him go just before he is 20. He's now going into the big wide world with an NVQ in fitness and leisure, and so can probably land a job at a leisure centre.

That kid has been used to some extent and now has limited prospects. If he's lucky enough to come from a stable family that can afford for him to stay at home, he can go to college and get a qualification in plumbing, electrics, etc, or maybe grab A-levels and head off to university afterwards. But that will still put him a good couple of years behind peers of his own age.

And what if he comes from not such a great background, and mum can't afford to keep him at home without him earning his keep? He'll most likely end up in a low paid job, with little career prospects. When he's had the footballer's lifestyle flashed in front of his face at the training ground on a regular basis, it's easy to see how it can be tempting to go after big money via dodgy means.

As much as we take the piss out of the Americans, one thing that they appear to have right is their youth set ups at university. If you're a potential basketball, American football, golf superstar, you will still pick up a proper qualification on the side in case things don't work out on the pitch.

With the amount of cash in the game these days, there is no excuse for any top level club releasing young men without giving them a fair chance of gaining decent qualifications.
Great post, maybe some legislation or links with certain universities or colleges for players that don't make it so they can enrol on a 'failed football scholarship' and retrain.

I've always been quite intrigued by the argument for universal basic income and wonder if this is an instance it would work well.
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  #51  
Old 11-02-2019, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
We did have a tie in with Oasis Academy near Shirley, but Iíve read thatís coming to an end soon. Wan-Bissaka was there.

I do think clubs should ensure the boys have a decent education. They canít need them to train all day, every day, so there must be numerous hours to fill in which they could be either doing some GCSEs, BTechs, that sort of thing.

Not only would that improve their chances of employment if they donít make it as footballers, but it helps make them more rounded individuals.
This I agree with, yes whilst they are at the academy, the schooling should be first rate. Whether the players make it or not they should be given an education for that important time in your life.
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  #52  
Old 11-02-2019, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
I do think clubs should ensure the boys have a decent education. They can’t need them to train all day, every day, so there must be numerous hours to fill in which they could be either doing some GCSEs, BTechs, that sort of thing.

Not only would that improve their chances of employment if they don’t make it as footballers, but it helps make them more rounded individuals.
Isn't this part of what you need to qualify as a cat A academy? If not it should be.
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  #53  
Old 11-02-2019, 06:23 PM
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This I agree with, yes whilst they are at the academy, the schooling should be first rate. Whether the players make it or not they should be given an education for that important time in your life.
Even if they did, I can't really see a bloke who can't even be arsed to tell his manager he's made a mistake in signing after one game taking advantage of it.

And is there really much you can't learn on Youtube these days anyway, if you want to?
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:31 PM
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Even if they did, I can't really see a bloke who can't even be arsed to tell his manager he's made a mistake in signing after one game taking advantage of it.

And is there really much you can't learn on Youtube these days anyway, if you want to?
This goes back to my previous posts, that the individual has to take responsibillity for their life, not the club.
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:23 PM
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I remember the Channel 4 series about the CPFC academy. It was around the time Wayne Routledge was in the youth team so quite some years ago.

There was one young academy player who took great pleasure in showing off his sporty car, and the programme even labelled him as the flash young kid.

I know at 17/18 he was living the dream, but 9 out of ten won't make it in any real sense and are lucky to play either league 2 or non-league football for the rest of their 'career' and will earn a slightly above average wage as a footballer, then from 30 be really scraping around for a well paid job.

Surely any decent parent would get them to put the majority of their earnings into savings or property at that age whilst they are on good money for their age, so that life is a little less of a struggle financially later on??
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  #56  
Old 11-02-2019, 07:28 PM
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I remember the Channel 4 series about the CPFC academy. It was around the time Wayne Routledge was in the youth team so quite some years ago.

There was one young academy player who took great pleasure in showing off his sporty car, and the programme even labelled him as the flash young kid.

I know at 17/18 he was living the dream, but 9 out of ten won't make it in any real sense and are lucky to play either league 2 or non-league football for the rest of their 'career' and will earn a slightly above average wage as a footballer, then from 30 be really scraping around for a well paid job.

Surely any decent parent would get them to put the majority of their earnings into savings or property at that age whilst they are on good money for their age, so that life is a little less of a struggle financially later on??
Was it Craig Dobson?

He was quite decent but seemed to be more about tricks and flicks than anything else. That and he played on the Wing and Routledge was better.
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:37 PM
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Was it Craig Dobson?

He was quite decent but seemed to be more about tricks and flicks than anything else. That and he played on the Wing and Routledge was better.
I can't honestly remember. The programme was called The Players (?) I think. Best episode was the one where they went to a tournament abroad and the ref was nuts, sent loads of players off!!
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:50 PM
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I can't honestly remember. The programme was called The Players (?) I think. Best episode was the one where they went to a tournament abroad and the ref was nuts, sent loads of players off!!
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Old 11-02-2019, 10:51 PM
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My point is, I dont think the club is anyway responsible for Ďsupportí after leaving the club, maybe in help finding another club on notification of end of contract but that is it.
Your attitude is from the dark ages.

Even in jobs that don't take you out of 'real life' like football, any decent employer these days will offer an extensive package of support when they make employees redundant. Even to employees who have qualifications and are fairly well-trained.

In that context, you are suggesting that football clubs should offer no support to kids that they have taken into their academies, often from a very young age, often from disadvantaged backgrounds, when they have given them a schooling that contains a daily diet of football (and maybe a rudimentary education in other subjects) when they release them? Utterly unrealistic attitude...clubs should at least have a program of support that has them identify what their next direction is and set them off on the path.
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Old 11-02-2019, 11:07 PM
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Your attitude is from the dark ages.

Even in jobs that don't take you out of 'real life' like football, any decent employer these days will offer an extensive package of support when they make employees redundant. Even to employees who have qualifications and are fairly well-trained.

In that context, you are suggesting that football clubs should offer no support to kids that they have taken into their academies, often from a very young age, often from disadvantaged backgrounds, when they have given them a schooling that contains a daily diet of football (and maybe a rudimentary education in other subjects) when they release them? Utterly unrealistic attitude...clubs should at least have a program of support that has them identify what their next direction is and set them off on the path.
Great if they do, I just saying that the responsibility lies with the individual. I'm not saying they shouldn't offer support, but it's not the club's responsibility for the future wellbeing, life isnt over at 18, it's just beginning.

What about kids in all sports that don't make it? Im sure track athletes dont get any support after they realise they arnt good enough.
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