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  #109421  
Old 26-06-2019, 10:14 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
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Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
I get it.

You like bold text, bold weapons, bold countries, bold militaries, bold banks, bold trade, bold alliances, bold wars.

You might find this helpful
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Nah raggy. I would prefer a united humanity working together under one trading system fighting climate change and treating every human exactly the same regardless of the randomness of their location of birth. Imop the best next stage of human evolution.

What we are however discussing is reality and history. Not ideals. You seem to lack any comprehension of reality or history. Did you look out the window a lot at school?
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  #109422  
Old 26-06-2019, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
I get it.
I don’t think you do.
It matters not a jot what Hpalace “likes”.
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  #109423  
Old 26-06-2019, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ebyeeckeagle View Post
Raggy. You put a list up of 'small' countries it seems, to suggest it's easy to progress as a stand alone country. Norway is an EEA member and Switz in the single market.

You are right that Europe would have dominated these lists before the EU and probably would regardless of the EU. So I am not trying to suggest the s responsible for the promotion of say a free press. That's in the hands of each country, which is evidential from the results of each member state.

But I would say it is a poor argument or example to back up the idea of thriving outside the bloc now.
Iceland left and are not doing so bad.

Greece, Portugal, Spain and Italy remains and joined the Euro none of these four are doing very wel!. Oh and of course the EU stole money from the vast majority of people in Cyprus (Greek part) with bank accounts not so long ago.
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  #109424  
Old 26-06-2019, 10:22 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
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Originally Posted by CT_Palace View Post
I don’t think you do.
It matters not a jot what Hpalace “likes”.
Quite. Do I like the fact there are 9 nations with nuclear missiles and a plethora that don’t? Would I prefer that none did? Of course.

Do I like the fact that if America were attacked with non nuclear missiles by a smaller nation targeting civilians and murdering hundreds of thousands and the likely response being the total obliteration of the aggressor? Of course not. But that is the reality.

Raggy doesn’t get it. Bless him. His views and his posts are myopic at best.
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  #109425  
Old 26-06-2019, 10:25 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Percy Dalton View Post
Iceland left and are not doing so bad.

Greece, Portugal, Spain and Italy remains and joined the Euro none of these four are doing very wel!. Oh and of course the EU stole money from the vast majority of people in Cyprus (Greek part) with bank accounts not so long ago.
Iceland are in the EEA.

The uk were not in and had no obligation to join the euro. To use something that we neither had and were under no obligation to have as an argument is frankly clutching at straws.
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  #109426  
Old 26-06-2019, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Percy Dalton View Post
Iceland left and are not doing so bad.

Greece, Portugal, Spain and Italy remains and joined the Euro none of these four are doing very wel!. Oh and of course the EU stole money from the vast majority of people in Cyprus (Greek part) with bank accounts not so long ago.
Spain, Portugal and Greece all above UK for projected growth in GDP: To view the link you have to Register or Login
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  #109427  
Old 26-06-2019, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
Spain, Portugal and Greece all above UK for projected growth in GDP: To view the link you have to Register or Login
Yeah the PIGS. Let’s keep using them as the reason to leave even though they are growing quicker than us and brexiteers cite one of them in his links above as a successful small nation and why we should be an independent small nation (ignoring the fact that Ireland are not independent)

Let’s leave cos of the PIGS

Is it just me or are the arguments for leaving growing weaker
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  #109428  
Old 26-06-2019, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
Spain, Portugal and Greece all above UK for projected growth in GDP: To view the link you have to Register or Login
No they're not. Projected growth for Portugal in 2020 1.5%, Uk 1.517% for starters.

Not that I've got a point or opinion about any of this.
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  #109429  
Old 26-06-2019, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Shamone View Post
No they're not. Projected growth for Portugal in 2020 1.5%, Uk 1.517% for starters.

Not that I've got a point or opinion about any of this.
That’s next year . They have a higher predicted growth this year. Watch ours over the next 5 months.
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  #109430  
Old 26-06-2019, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
Nah raggy. I would prefer a united humanity working together under one trading system fighting climate change and treating every human exactly the same regardless of the randomness of their location of birth. Imop the best next stage of human evolution.
One Trading System - You would like a Capitalist Super-State?

I agree about climate change. If only we had such a body. It could sort of set up international protocols for carbon reduction and maintaining biodiversity.
We could call it something like 'the United Nations'.
It's just a crazy dream I know, not based in reality. But perhaps one day, you never know.
Until such time we should put all our energies into fanatically maintaining a failing, elitist, capitalist trade block based on just one small continent and excluding all the rest. That should do the trick.
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  #109431  
Old 26-06-2019, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CT_Palace View Post
It matters not a jot what Hpalace “likes”.
At last, you speak some sense.
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  #109432  
Old 26-06-2019, 10:53 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
One Trading System - You would like a Capitalist Super-State?

I agree about climate change. If only we had such a body. It could sort of set up international protocols for carbon reduction and maintaining biodiversity.
We could call it something like 'the United Nations'.
It's just a crazy dream I know, not based in reality. But perhaps one day, you never know.
Until such time we should put all our energies into fanatically maintaining a failing, elitist, capitalist trade block based on just one small continent and excluding all the rest. That should do the trick.
Ffs raggy you make so many assumptions every time you post you look like an aggressive Twat. Calm down.

Humanity is on the precipice of entering a new robotics and tech era where most of our daily careers will become null and void. Why would I want that to be under a capitalist system? One trading system and a fair playing field for all is my vain hope while humanity enjoys the benefits of the tech and robotics.

One clear goal. Sort out the planet and put other endeavours into finding another suitable one in case we’ve already ****ed this one up too much.

The United Nations you cite may be the body that gets us there but on past history I strongly doubt that.

In reality (back to that) I don’t see any of the above happening. Especially when brexiteers want to break ties, the USA want to become protectionist and the right wing continue to divide and conquer and lexiteers cheer them on for train lines and stuff.
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  #109433  
Old 26-06-2019, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
Also, non-EU European nations (e.g. Norway, Switzerland) seem to be disproportionately represented in positive lists. So being European is advantageous, not being in the EU.
Yet Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands were also in the top 10 of your lists, all are in the EU.
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  #109434  
Old 26-06-2019, 11:32 PM
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  #109435  
Old 27-06-2019, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
At last, you speak some sense.
Was that supposed to be witty or are you actually agreeing with me that whether Hpalace likes something is neither here nor there?
However what he is stating - that it is better to be part of the whole rather than adrift - which is based on quite easily recognizable logic and fact, and I do feel like I need to point this out again to you, has nothing to do with whether he "likes" the point he's making or not.
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  #109436  
Old 27-06-2019, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
Yeah the PIGS. Let’s keep using them as the reason to leave even though they are growing quicker than us and brexiteers cite one of them in his links above as a successful small nation and why we should be an independent small nation (ignoring the fact that Ireland are not independent)

Let’s leave cos of the PIGS

Is it just me or are the arguments for leaving growing weaker
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
Spain, Portugal and Greece all above UK for projected growth in GDP: To view the link you have to Register or Login
Seriously guys, what has happened to the PIGS is a standing condemnation of the eurozone - and that is an integral part of the EU project. You can cherry pick a couple of months data here and there to show they are doing better than the UK but the fact is that they have all done terribly since the euro was introduced - as was widely predicted, and for well-understood economic reasons.

The Greek economy shrank by over 25% after the first debt crisis there - that's a bigger recession than anything we've ever seen in the UK in our entire history. Italy has basically had zero per capita growth since joining the euro and several of the PIGS economies have had unemployment rates of 20% + at various points, with youth unemployment over 50% in some. Huge numbers have emigrated, there have been massive attacks on social programmes, workers rights, minimum wages.

The austerity inflicted on the PIGS economies by the EU is like a Cameron-Osborne wet dream, it is far beyond what the tories have managed to achieve in the UK.

By all means point out the inconsistencies in Brexit arguments, but retreating into this idea that Brexit Bad, Bremain/EU Good is facile and means you will not understand phenomena like Salvini in Italy.
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Last edited by Clapham Rover; 27-06-2019 at 05:16 AM.
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  #109437  
Old 27-06-2019, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
One Trading System - You would like a Capitalist Super-State?

I agree about climate change. If only we had such a body. It could sort of set up international protocols for carbon reduction and maintaining biodiversity.
We could call it something like 'the United Nations'.
It's just a crazy dream I know, not based in reality. But perhaps one day, you never know.
Until such time we should put all our energies into fanatically maintaining a failing, elitist, capitalist trade block based on just one small continent and excluding all the rest. That should do the trick.
lolololololol.
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  #109438  
Old 27-06-2019, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Clapham Rover View Post
By all means point out the inconsistencies in Brexit arguments, but retreating into this idea that Brexit Bad, Bremain/EU Good is facile and means you will not understand phenomena like Salvini in Italy.
seriously you do understand that legia nord was set up with the aim of turning italy into a federal state...
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  #109439  
Old 27-06-2019, 06:40 AM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
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Originally Posted by Clapham Rover View Post
Seriously guys, what has happened to the PIGS is a standing condemnation of the eurozone - and that is an integral part of the EU project. You can cherry pick a couple of months data here and there to show they are doing better than the UK but the fact is that they have all done terribly since the euro was introduced - as was widely predicted, and for well-understood economic reasons.

The Greek economy shrank by over 25% after the first debt crisis there - that's a bigger recession than anything we've ever seen in the UK in our entire history. Italy has basically had zero per capita growth since joining the euro and several of the PIGS economies have had unemployment rates of 20% + at various points, with youth unemployment over 50% in some. Huge numbers have emigrated, there have been massive attacks on social programmes, workers rights, minimum wages.

The austerity inflicted on the PIGS economies by the EU is like a Cameron-Osborne wet dream, it is far beyond what the tories have managed to achieve in the UK.

By all means point out the inconsistencies in Brexit arguments, but retreating into this idea that Brexit Bad, Bremain/EU Good is facile and means you will not understand phenomena like Salvini in Italy.
We weren’t in the eurozone and were under no obligation to join the eurozone. Sure we could have been more charitable to the PIGS but we weren’t. We gave a loan to Ireland and that was pretty much it.

Failures of the eurozone are cited as a reason to leave (ignoring the successes) when we weren’t even in it. Hence the churlishness.
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  #109440  
Old 27-06-2019, 06:46 AM
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Since the year the UK joined the EU GDP per capita in the UK has grown faster than in the two other big EU economies France and Germany and also exceeded growth in the USA.

The reason why we are leaving has nothing to do with the EU being bad or restrictive for our economy. We are leaving because enough people in the UK, mainly in England, have a strong dislike of foreigners, and were willing to risk the economy in their delusion that leaving would reduce immigration levels.

Interestingly, the population of the UK reported just this week has the population now actually falling.
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