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  #61  
Old 30-06-2014, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Nork1 View Post
It's not exclusive to defenders though is it? What happens if an attacking player gets caught holding a defender back at a corner? Free kick at worst. If a defender does it in the box and gets caught the punishment's a bit harsher.
A defender gains no advantage chucking himself down... if the ref ignores him he's out of the game and immediately puts his team in danger. If an attacking player does it the worst that can happen is the move breaks down and MAYBE a booking but if the ref gets taken in, penalty. The attacking team has every advantage and nothing to lose if no action is taken, the same can't be said about the defending team.
But both teams attack and defend. So it's not like these scenarios exist one way.

Corners are ridiculous - attacking players tugging defenders get called up a lot more than the other way around.

Tugging a shirt, whether you are an attacker or defender is cheating and it is wrong. But it's part of the art of British defending so we are OK with it. Diving though is something those pesky foreign players have brought in and must be stamped out.
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  #62  
Old 30-06-2014, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Away Day Eagle View Post
Shirt pulling at corners - yes, they get away with it - but is it worse than
diving/simulation ?
I'd say it ruins more games.

In terms of what else they get away with, there is the blatant obstructions when shielding the ball out for starters, the cynical fouls they commit when the other team is countering and only punished with a yellow.

These are game ruiners and I think far worse for football than an exaggerated tumble
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  #63  
Old 30-06-2014, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by kolinkins View Post
But both teams attack and defend. So it's not like these scenarios exist one way.

You could say that about any cheating. How about we just drop the outrage about diving, shirt pulling, blame Mexico for not doing the same as Robben and have a free for all?

Corners are ridiculous - attacking players tugging defenders get called up a lot more than the other way around.

But defending players get harsher penalties if caught.


Tugging a shirt, whether you are an attacker or defender is cheating and it is wrong. But it's part of the art of British defending so we are OK with it.

No we're not. I can't speak for you but it pisses me off that players do it and refs turn a blind eye.

Diving though is something those pesky foreign players have brought in and must be stamped out.

No, it was as unacceptable when Francis Lee was diving all over the shop in the 70's as it is now.
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  #64  
Old 30-06-2014, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Away Day Eagle View Post
Shirt pulling at corners - yes, they get away with it - but is it worse than
diving/simulation ?

What else do they get away with ?
Define worse. It's all trying to get an unfair advantage, and I suspect it has more impact.

If you think about a corner, the attacking team should win the ball way more than they do as they have most of the advantages (they know where it is going, they are attacking the ball whilst on the run, whereas some of the defenders are not so they should be able to jump higher). The defending team sometimes has a man advantage attacking the ball (sometimes, usually there are two extra defenders in the box but at least one will normally be on a post) which cancels some of this. But overall the attacking team should win the ball a lot more than it does.

Why doesn't it?
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  #65  
Old 30-06-2014, 04:45 PM
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The other thing that impacts the general perception of diving compared to to shirt pulling / other defender offences is the visual impact. Someone diving creates a chance. The game stops for the free kick / penalty. When the defender pulls a shirt there is no chance created and the game continues and frankly it is forgotten. It has much lower visual impact on the overall game than diving does.
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  #66  
Old 30-06-2014, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolinkins View Post
I'd say it ruins more games.

In terms of what else they get away with, there is the blatant obstructions when shielding the ball out for starters, the cynical fouls they commit when the other team is countering and only punished with a yellow.

These are game ruiners and I think far worse for football than an exaggerated tumble
Shielding the ball out isn't necessarily obstruction, but is often overdone.Strikers shield the ball/back into players in the box as well and can't be tackled from behind.

Simulation/diving materially affects the outcome of games (red cards/penalties), hence attracts the most attention, in addition, it invariably involves the higher profile stars (strikers).

I take the point about the cynical fouls to break up/stop play. What about deliberate time wasting, encroaching at free kicks (the spray used at the WC is a great idea) and surrounding the referee.

Last season at Old Trafford when we played there, every block made by a Palace defender in wide positions in/around the box they tried to claim hand ball, it was like a default response. Every throw in/corner/goal kick,they tried to claim it, and went to take a throw/corner, irrespective of what was given. Is that not cheating ?

What about the feigning of injury to ensure the ball is kicked out ? Usually forwards when the ball has gone down the other end of the pitch and their team has to defend.
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  #67  
Old 05-07-2014, 12:31 AM
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Given that Zuniga broke Neymer's back today, do we still think football is a non-contact sport?
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  #68  
Old 05-07-2014, 05:22 AM
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It is staggering that in this World Cup of all times people should be calling for more leniency for defenders. There have been hundreds of fouls under punished versus a few blatant dives given. Zuniga and matuidi are two of the most obvious players to have got away with assault.

Also, it's an insult to Jedi to make him out to be some bruiser. His great asset is his positioning and covering, his football brain. When he fouls it's usually of the had to stop the attack type rather than brute intimidation.
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  #69  
Old 05-07-2014, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
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Also, it's an insult to Jedi to make him out to be some bruiser. His great asset is his positioning and covering, his football brain. When he fouls it's usually of the had to stop the attack type rather than brute intimidation.
This is true, i can't remember him making a sliding tackle. He breaks up opposition play, mainly by reading the situation and block tackling or heading.
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  #70  
Old 05-07-2014, 06:48 AM
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  #71  
Old 05-07-2014, 06:50 AM
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Given that Zuniga broke Neymer's back today, do we still think football is a non-contact sport?
Sounds very dramatic - i wonder if he'll ever walk again.
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  #72  
Old 05-07-2014, 08:13 AM
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The shirt pulling,pushing shoving and holding that goes on in the game would soon be solved if the refs awarded penalties.

Whoever related this to British football is lacking in knowledge and history of the game,we should acknowledge our friends in Italy for this ....pity we adopted the tactics which became world wide.

Last night after the ref awarded a free kick and marked out the distance with his shaving foam he ignored a player from the side who was much closer,when he blew his whistle the line broke and were only two or three feet away when the ball was struck.

The game was ruined by the officials,so much laxity resulted eventually to the disgraceful tackle on Neymar
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  #73  
Old 05-07-2014, 09:20 AM
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Sounds very dramatic - i wonder if he'll ever walk again?
Next month.

Even so, cracking a vertebra constitutes a hard foul in anyone's langusge, I'd've thought.
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  #74  
Old 05-07-2014, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Harry Bassett View Post
The shirt pulling,pushing shoving and holding that goes on in the game would soon be solved if the refs awarded penalties.

Whoever related this to British football is lacking in knowledge and history of the game,we should acknowledge our friends in Italy for this ....pity we adopted the tactics which became world wide.

Last night after the ref awarded a free kick and marked out the distance with his shaving foam he ignored a player from the side who was much closer,when he blew his whistle the line broke and were only two or three feet away when the ball was struck.

The game was ruined by the officials,so much laxity resulted eventually to the disgraceful tackle on Neymar.
I believe the player in question was actually Neymar.
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  #75  
Old 05-07-2014, 09:37 AM
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I think we have a decent balance right now. I like 'proper defending' as Pulis would put it, but not thuggery - football is better when played as a skill game. There will always be players who go to far, players who con the ref and refs who fall for it.
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  #76  
Old 05-07-2014, 09:39 AM
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I feel very sorry for Neymar but at least Columbia didn't systematically try to foul him from the very off. Brazil deserved to have a player or two out for the next game.
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  #77  
Old 05-07-2014, 10:17 AM
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I feel very sorry for Neymar but at least Columbia didn't systematically try to foul him from the very off. Brazil deserved to have a player or two out for the next game.
Brazil kicked Rodriguez at every opportunity, especially Fernandinho. Not sure how their only bookings were Cesar for the penalty and thiago silva bumping into the keeper.
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  #78  
Old 05-07-2014, 10:40 AM
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I knew that Cesar would only get a yellow but he was the last man and surely that's a red. One rule for keepers...

The ref did seem to be a "let the game flow at all costs" type. A booking in the first five minutes and we may have had a different game.
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