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  #41  
Old 28-11-2013, 10:02 AM
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A couple of years ago there was some very rum business going on with Grays Athletic. Loads of people were picking up winnings after a match and the whispers on the terrace was that the result was predetermined. No bugger told me though.
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  #42  
Old 28-11-2013, 10:07 AM
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By the way, would definitely recommend Declan Hill's blog:

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Match fixing is also found to be rife when players aren't paid on time. Makes you wonder whether fixers have approached many of the insolvent Football League clubs over the last decade.
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  #43  
Old 28-11-2013, 10:11 AM
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Match-fixing is never likely to occur in relation to the top two tiers. The players are simply paid too much much for it ever to be worth their while.
If that were the case multi millionaires like Philip Green wouldn't devote so much energy to avoiding paying tax?
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  #44  
Old 28-11-2013, 10:14 AM
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Match-fixing is never likely to occur in relation to the top two tiers. The players are simply paid too much much for it ever to be worth their while.
I recall an incident where Baptiste (now of Bolton) deliberately missed a penalty on the last day of the season when playing for Harchester United which nearly saw them relegated. Luckily Carl Fletcher (who was to join Palace some years later) scored the rebound. Unless that was a dream.
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  #45  
Old 28-11-2013, 10:17 AM
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If that were the case multi millionaires like Philip Green wouldn't devote so much energy to avoiding paying tax?
Green's tax structuring isn't likely to see him banned for life from selling ugly clothes and it isn't illegal (regardless of its morality). He also saves substantial amounts of money, both in real terms and as a percentage of his overall earnings, as a result of these schemes.

The only time I see match fixing being likely in the top two tiers is in instances where clubs have gone into administration and are not paying their players promptly.
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  #46  
Old 28-11-2013, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by AndyStreet View Post
Green's tax structuring isn't likely to see him banned for life from selling ugly clothes and it isn't illegal (regardless of its morality). He also saves substantial amounts of money, both in real terms and as a percentage of his overall earnings, as a result of these schemes.

The only time I see match fixing being likely in the top two tiers is in instances where clubs have gone into administration and are not paying their players promptly.
I think that you have missed the point. Wealth does not stop people being greedy, in fact the opposite is often the case.
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  #47  
Old 28-11-2013, 10:53 AM
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Green's tax structuring isn't likely to see him banned for life from selling ugly clothes and it isn't illegal (regardless of its morality). He also saves substantial amounts of money, both in real terms and as a percentage of his overall earnings, as a result of these schemes.

The only time I see match fixing being likely in the top two tiers is in instances where clubs have gone into administration and are not paying their players promptly.
What about Italy? Juventus, Milan, Lazio and Fiorentina were all caught up in match fixing scandals. A lot of footballers are dumb, if you chuck enough money at them they will do whatever you ask.
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  #48  
Old 28-11-2013, 10:57 AM
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I think that you have missed the point. Wealth does not stop people being greedy, in fact the opposite is often the case.
And I think you have missed the point - there is only a marginal economic incentive for a Premier League player to engage in match fixing. The average Premier wage is £30k p/w; the money changing hands in the Pakistani cricket scandal in individual instances of spot fixing was reputed to be £100k, as an example. That is a small gain for someone earning on average £1.6m p.a., when taking into account the colossal risk accepted in the form of lifetime loss of earnings, reputation and criminal sanction. VHA made the point that perhaps fixers would just pay more to fix a PL match. It's possible - the PL betting market is sizeable - but betting patterns on PL matches are subject to far more scrutiny than, for example, a conference match. And ultimately 4/1 on a Premier League match is exactly the same as 4/1 on a conference match, as long as you can find someone willing to take your bet.

Perhaps there are a couple of top level footballers out there stupid enough to take on such risk for marginal gain - there are anomalies and outliers in every situation - but it would go against all of the academic studies of match fixing. When you take into account the extent to which players at the top level are advised, by lawyers and/or agents, I would be amazed.

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  #49  
Old 28-11-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by rednblue eagle View Post
What about Italy? Juventus, Milan, Lazio and Fiorentina were all caught up in match fixing scandals. A lot of footballers are dumb, if you chuck enough money at them they will do whatever you ask.
Calciopoli implicated referees and club officials, not players IIRC.
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  #50  
Old 28-11-2013, 01:06 PM
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A lot of footballers are dumb, if you chuck enough money at them they will do whatever you ask.
The fact that he had a suitcase full of cash in the boot of his casr was because he was running an errand for Mr. Venables
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  #51  
Old 28-11-2013, 01:31 PM
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Calciopoli implicated referees and club officials, not players IIRC.
I think that you are right in terms of the previous scandal in 2006; they involved payments and gifts to referees and using influence to get ‘sympathetic’ referees.

The last big scandal in 2011 – Scommessopoli – did invovle players although all in Serie B and below. However there were some relatively big names including Giuseppe Signori implicated in it. It also included a former Crystal Palace player – Nicola Ventola, who received a 3½ year ban, although he had already retired when it was imposed.

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  #52  
Old 28-11-2013, 03:16 PM
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I would think linemen and refs would be the first target of bribes they wouldnt be earning anywhere near the levels of the players and its easy just to say you missed the incident even scored goals in our case. I wouldnt put it past clubs needing wins say to get into europe,winning leagues, avoiding relegation just asking another club in mid table to throw it anything is possible with the amounts of cash up for grabs.
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  #53  
Old 28-11-2013, 03:53 PM
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What hashtag do I need to search on twitter for libellous accusations?
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  #54  
Old 28-11-2013, 03:54 PM
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What hashtag do I need to search on twitter for libellous accusations?
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Old 28-11-2013, 09:05 PM
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Some interesting suggestions about the likely clubs involved on a non-League forum
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  #56  
Old 28-11-2013, 10:18 PM
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Aye, post 18 by the Forest Green Rovers fan on that thread mentions the game I was at and mentioned at the top of this page.
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Old 28-11-2013, 11:10 PM
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And I think you have missed the point - there is only a marginal economic incentive for a Premier League player to engage in match fixing. The average Premier wage is £30k p/w; the money changing hands in the Pakistani cricket scandal in individual instances of spot fixing was reputed to be £100k, as an example. That is a small gain for someone earning on average £1.6m p.a., when taking into account the colossal risk accepted in the form of lifetime loss of earnings, reputation and criminal sanction. VHA made the point that perhaps fixers would just pay more to fix a PL match. It's possible - the PL betting market is sizeable - but betting patterns on PL matches are subject to far more scrutiny than, for example, a conference match. And ultimately 4/1 on a Premier League match is exactly the same as 4/1 on a conference match, as long as you can find someone willing to take your bet.

Perhaps there are a couple of top level footballers out there stupid enough to take on such risk for marginal gain - there are anomalies and outliers in every situation - but it would go against all of the academic studies of match fixing. When you take into account the extent to which players at the top level are advised, by lawyers and/or agents, I would be amazed.
You seem to have done your research. But there are numerous incidences of other industry equivalents. Just take a peek at what's going on at SAC, JP Morgan, Barclays, etc. etc. where insider trading and rate fixing have either been proved or there's been a large settlement. Those involved in this aren't hard up, are intelligent, generally well-advised and work in regulated industries which are increasingly well policed and where the monetary, criminal and publicity sanctions are high. Yet they still do it. I agree that there is no evidence that the PL guys are involved in match fixing but to rule them out on the basis of what they earn and the associated risk just doesn't do it for me. Perhaps I'm just too cynical.
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Old 29-11-2013, 05:34 AM
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Everton and Hans Segers springs to mind. Similarly Fashanu catching the ball from a throw on at SP. The Conference South story from last year seemed to die away but at the time someone said iirc it was endemic at that level, the FA didn't do much about it, can of worms etc...
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  #59  
Old 29-11-2013, 05:42 AM
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And I think you have missed the point - there is only a marginal economic incentive for a Premier League player to engage in match fixing. The average Premier wage is £30k p/w; the money changing hands in the Pakistani cricket scandal in individual instances of spot fixing was reputed to be £100k, as an example. That is a small gain for someone earning on average £1.6m p.a., when taking into account the colossal risk accepted in the form of lifetime loss of earnings, reputation and criminal sanction. VHA made the point that perhaps fixers would just pay more to fix a PL match. It's possible - the PL betting market is sizeable - but betting patterns on PL matches are subject to far more scrutiny than, for example, a conference match. And ultimately 4/1 on a Premier League match is exactly the same as 4/1 on a conference match, as long as you can find someone willing to take your bet.

Perhaps there are a couple of top level footballers out there stupid enough to take on such risk for marginal gain - there are anomalies and outliers in every situation - but it would go against all of the academic studies of match fixing. When you take into account the extent to which players at the top level are advised, by lawyers and/or agents, I would be amazed.
What about referees though? although well paid comparitively speaking, they earn nothing like pro footballers at the top level and could be seen as the softest target for a betting syndicate. I would be amazed if all the referees in the PL had never been approached about this.
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Old 29-11-2013, 10:04 AM
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You seem to have done your research. But there are numerous incidences of other industry equivalents. Just take a peek at what's going on at SAC, JP Morgan, Barclays, etc. etc. where insider trading and rate fixing have either been proved or there's been a large settlement. Those involved in this aren't hard up, are intelligent, generally well-advised and work in regulated industries which are increasingly well policed and where the monetary, criminal and publicity sanctions are high. Yet they still do it. I agree that there is no evidence that the PL guys are involved in match fixing but to rule them out on the basis of what they earn and the associated risk just doesn't do it for me. Perhaps I'm just too cynical.
I think the difference between match fixing and market abuse ultimately comes down to detectability and potential return. That said, the FCA is now cracking down far harder than pre-crash, so you'll find fewer instances of MA over the next 5 years.
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