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  #41  
Old 30-06-2014, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Nork1 View Post
But the likes of Robben, Ashley Young, they're not being fouled all the time are they?
I'd say most of the time they are - just the dubious ones make the highlights.

I'd say defenders get away with much more rule breaking than attacking players
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  #42  
Old 30-06-2014, 12:01 PM
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I do hope Jedinak doesn't make any 'crunching tackles' next season...
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  #43  
Old 30-06-2014, 12:10 PM
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There was another example yesterday. Costa Rican does clean, 1 footed tackle, other player makes a scene, booking and free kick. Ridiculous.

It's not just about penalties and diving though. Look at the protection a keeper gets. It's pretty much a free kick the second anyone jumps with one.
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  #44  
Old 30-06-2014, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Nork1 View Post
But the likes of Robben, Ashley Young, they're not being fouled all the time are they?
A lot of it, sure. All of it, probably not.

I am not excusing it, and I certainly don't like it, but just giving an example of why it happens. Until referees start blowing up for fouls where the attacker stays on his feet, you cannot blame a player for hitting the ground when there is only minimal contact as he's specifically making it harder for himself by not going to ground.

Clear dives where there is no contact whatsoever is different (e.g Owen against Argentina) as that's clearly cheating. But minimal contact then I find it hard to argue if a player goes down.
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  #45  
Old 30-06-2014, 12:47 PM
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I've spoken to a few people in the past few weeks (the latest was the taxi driver from Dublin airport this morning) who don't follow football anymore because they've had it with the antics that people like Robben displayed last night, by way of an example.

A breath of wind and they're on the feckin' floor.

I was watching a re-run of France's world cup win yesterday morning - it really wasn't that long ago but I was sittting there thinking "if this game was being played now, it would end up 5-a-side before 90 minutes was up".

It is quite depressing.
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  #46  
Old 30-06-2014, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooders View Post
I've spoken to a few people in the past few weeks (the latest was the taxi driver from Dublin airport this morning) who don't follow football anymore because they've had it with the antics that people like Robben displayed last night, by way of an example.

A breath of wind and they're on the feckin' floor.

I was watching a re-run of France's world cup win yesterday morning - it really wasn't that long ago but I was sittting there thinking "if this game was being played now, it would end up 5-a-side before 90 minutes was up".

It is quite depressing.
I used to get down about diving, but have long since come to the realisation that defenders get away with much more that ruins that game.
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  #47  
Old 30-06-2014, 12:52 PM
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In answer to the original post. Yes definitely.

My under 8 team played a side recently. One of the opposition players was 'perhaps' fouled in the box, he stayed on his feet and managed to get a shot away. The opposition manager shouted 'Jonny you should have gone down'. Yes an under 8 friendly match. Very sad times.

(They scored from a rebound off the the shot btw.)
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  #48  
Old 30-06-2014, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
I would imagine players ultimately will say they go down because they are fouled all the time, but unless they go down they don't get a free kick.

And actually I have some sympathy with that. They don't get free kicks unless they hit the ground. Nothing is ever done about defenders trying to get an advantage so why should you solely go for the attackers?
Defenders are pretty much in a no win situation. They have no equivalent method of gaining an advantage save for a bit of shirt tugging but attacking players do the same thing. But they know damn well that if they so much as go near some of the more 'creative' players it's going to cost them dear. Ronaldo was famous for it at United. Defenders wouldn't go near him within 25 yards of goal because they knew he'd fall over... free kick, bang, thank you very much.

Attacking players have every advantage. I would argue the likes of Robben, Ronaldo, Young, etc, throw themselves down because they know it's pretty much a no lose situation, the rewards far outweigh the risks. How many times did Robben dive last night? How many were actually fouls? How many times did he get booked?
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  #49  
Old 30-06-2014, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Suffolkeagle View Post
It's not at the minute,but it's going that way. Both Mexico and holland should of had pens earlier of which both tackles could of done serious damage to the other player
Sometimes a Player gets out of the way,to avoid serious damage,then gets Booked for Diving.
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  #50  
Old 30-06-2014, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CPFC_DAVE77 View Post
I do hope Jedinak doesn't make any 'crunching tackles' next season...
.... but you are missing the point...there is a world of difference between a fair "crunching tackle" where the ball is played fairly with two players competing strobgly for the ball.....and the kind of tackle which was just plain wrong and dangerous and still is !!

..... "kicking a player up in the air because he is wearing gloves"...this is what some people go to watch football for?.... no, i go to watch football for the fantastic skills shown by Zaha, and yes for the comittment ))) of Andy Gray/Geoff Thomas, but i think again in general that it is fair that attackers have the better advantage now.

I have watched some horrible games in the past.. where defenders seemed to think they had the right to kick anyone who came near the goal..and it didnt make for an interesting game of football...indeed teams like Leeds United became famous for it...and i dont want to go back to that.
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  #51  
Old 30-06-2014, 02:08 PM
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I agree with this. Diving is frustrating, of course, but when you see some horror tackles from over the years (yes, you, Shawcross) you see why players need protection.
Trust you, you twiggy wimp.
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  #52  
Old 30-06-2014, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Twiggy View Post
.... but you are missing the point...there is a world of difference between a fair "crunching tackle" where the ball is played fairly with two players competing strobgly for the ball.....and the kind of tackle which was just plain wrong and dangerous and still is !!

..... "kicking a player up in the air because he is wearing gloves"...this is what some people go to watch football for?.... no, i go to watch football for the fantastic skills shown by Zaha, and yes for the comittment ))) of Andy Gray/Geoff Thomas, but i think again in general that it is fair that attackers have the better advantage now.

I have watched some horrible games in the past.. where defenders seemed to think they had the right to kick anyone who came near the goal..and it didnt make for an interesting game of football...indeed teams like Leeds United became famous for it...and i dont want to go back to that.
You miss-quoted me, which, given it's on the same thread is fairly poor, IMO.

For reference, I said: 'Centre mids going in hard on a player with tights and gloves on and winning the ball while sticking the tart up in the air is one of the reasons we go to Palace, isn't it?' So you don't get excited when you see the ball drop between the palace and Brighton captain the Palace skipper stivks the Brighton lad on his arse?

If it isn't, why are most fans favourite's Jedinak, Hughes and Clint Hill? Because of their skill and technique?

I NEVER said people should be dangerous and go out to hurt people.

I said we are slowly losing the ability for anyone to go in hard.

'Putting someone up in the air' is is now seen inherently as 'that's a foul' - which it isn't.

Last edited by CPFC_DAVE77; 30-06-2014 at 02:15 PM.
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  #53  
Old 30-06-2014, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Twiggy View Post
.... but you are missing the point...there is a world of difference between a fair "crunching tackle" where the ball is played fairly with two players competing strobgly for the ball.....and the kind of tackle which was just plain wrong and dangerous and still is !!

..... "kicking a player up in the air because he is wearing gloves"...this is what some people go to watch football for?.... no, i go to watch football for the fantastic skills shown by Zaha, and yes for the comittment ))) of Andy Gray/Geoff Thomas, but i think again in general that it is fair that attackers have the better advantage now.

I have watched some horrible games in the past.. where defenders seemed to think they had the right to kick anyone who came near the goal..and it didnt make for an interesting game of football...indeed teams like Leeds United became famous for it...and i dont want to go back to that.
Cold, frosty morning, little ponce in tights and bright coloured boots, can't beat the high pitched squeal as you smash into him
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  #54  
Old 30-06-2014, 02:40 PM
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Cold, frosty morning, little ponce in tights and bright coloured boots, can't beat the high pitched squeal as you smash into him
I have seen you play football. This is about as close to the truth as me saying I've won the World Cup.
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Old 30-06-2014, 02:43 PM
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I have seen you play football. This is about as close to the truth as me saying I've won the World Cup.
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Old 30-06-2014, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Nork1 View Post
Defenders are pretty much in a no win situation. They have no equivalent method of gaining an advantage save for a bit of shirt tugging but attacking players do the same thing. But they know damn well that if they so much as go near some of the more 'creative' players it's going to cost them dear. Ronaldo was famous for it at United. Defenders wouldn't go near him within 25 yards of goal because they knew he'd fall over... free kick, bang, thank you very much.

Attacking players have every advantage. I would argue the likes of Robben, Ronaldo, Young, etc, throw themselves down because they know it's pretty much a no lose situation, the rewards far outweigh the risks. How many times did Robben dive last night? How many were actually fouls? How many times did he get booked?
Cracking post. Attackers already have an advantage over defenders I feel, and then with regards to fouls, you can't even breathe on the likes of Robben, Ronaldo, Sturridge (his dives in the WC were pathetic) et al or the ref will blow up.
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Old 30-06-2014, 03:22 PM
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Cracking post. Attackers already have an advantage over defenders I feel, and then with regards to fouls, you can't even breathe on the likes of Robben, Ronaldo, Sturridge (his dives in the WC were pathetic) et al or the ref will blow up.
What advantage to attackers have?

There are more actions by defenders per game that should be called up than diving - but for some reason in this country we are obsessed with diving as being an ill of the game we must rid ourselves of.

Previously, I was harsher on diving, felt a retrospective 3 game ban should apply.

However, with time, I now think that it is the acts of defenders, like cynical fouls as the as other team counters, holding shirts, grabbing players at corners which ruin the game as a spectacle far more than diving.
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Old 30-06-2014, 03:23 PM
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Defenders are pretty much in a no win situation. They have no equivalent method of gaining an advantage save for a bit of shirt tugging
A pretty big advantage, holding your opponent, no?
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Old 30-06-2014, 03:49 PM
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A pretty big advantage, holding your opponent, no?
It's not exclusive to defenders though is it? What happens if an attacking player gets caught holding a defender back at a corner? Free kick at worst. If a defender does it in the box and gets caught the punishment's a bit harsher.
A defender gains no advantage chucking himself down... if the ref ignores him he's out of the game and immediately puts his team in danger. If an attacking player does it the worst that can happen is the move breaks down and MAYBE a booking but if the ref gets taken in, penalty. The attacking team has every advantage and nothing to lose if no action is taken, the same can't be said about the defending team.
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Old 30-06-2014, 03:53 PM
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I used to get down about diving, but have long since come to the realisation that defenders get away with much more that ruins that game.
Shirt pulling at corners - yes, they get away with it - but is it worse than
diving/simulation ?

What else do they get away with ?
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