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  #1  
Old 17-03-2004, 09:59 AM
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Why we all stand up and hate Man U...

This quite excellent article by Mick Dennis appeared in the Daily Express today. I think it's superb and it certainly encapsulates my feelings.

"If you want to know why Manchester United are despised by so many, look no further than tomorrow's appeal by Rio Ferdinand against his eight-month ban for missing a drugs test.
Back in September, United and Ferdinand demonstrated a blithe disregard for the rules by leaving drug testers sitting kicking their heels while he swanned off to Harvey Nicholls.
In the intervening six months there has not been a scintilla of humility from United. No admission of error. No acceptance of responsibility. No grateful relief that Rio was not banned for two years.
And tomorrow, United and Ferdinand will display the same arrogant assumption that they are always wronged and never wrong.
They will seek to get the ban overturned or reduced and in doing so will demonstrate again the haughty disdain which has made this country's real national anthem: "Stand up if you hate Man U."
Of course United have a vast legion of fans from Surrey to Kuala Lumpur, but supporters of other clubs loathe them with a unique passion.
Some of that hatred is jealousy. But the great Liverpool teams of the Seventies and Eighties were not detested, and it is difficult to imagine the current magnificent Arsenal side provoking widespread repugnance.
Yet every slip by United is cheered by the rest of us because, for all the sublime football they have played for more than a decade, there has always been an ugly underside.
It has been characterised by two Old Trafford icons, Eric Cantona and Roy Keane.
Cantona, the catalyst for United's emergence as an all-conquering force, was a genius, but a deeply flawed one. He left his footprints on opponents too often for it to have been an accident and that kung-fu assault on a punter at Selhurst Park was, literally, criminal.

Keane has been the irresistible, irrepressible power at the heart of United's greatness, but too frequently he has also been the gang leader as packs of their snarling players have intimidated referees. Similarly,
Sir Alex Ferguson's repeated red-faced tantrums have set an appalling example of bad sportsmanship which, sadly, may prove his most lasting legacy.

The way United pass the ball around has been profoundly beneficial to English football because generations of kids have tried to copy it. But the fury with which United confront officials has done untold damage because kids have copied that as well.
That is why catching sight of Rio and his mate Gary Neville sitting and suffering in the stand when United lost to Manchester City on Sunday gave me more joy than anything I have ever done with my clothes on.
Ferdinand is the cocky chancer who was too intent on spending some more money to remember a drugs test. Neville is the stroppy,
self-appointed shop steward who was affronted at the very notion
that Rio might be punished. The two of them epitomise the conceited disregard for authority which has marked the United era.
It may be a tad premature to call time on that era. Ferguson might perform another miracle. After all, he inherited a mediocre outfit, transformed them into the world's richest club and has collected 26 trophies in his 18 years in charge.
But how delicious it is that this season all United can win is the FA Cup - a pot they previously regarded as a worthless trinket and a competition they damaged grievously by pulling out in 2000.
And if the United era really is staggering to its conclusion, we should not be surprised.
When Liverpool were reeling out championship-winning teams season after season, I bumped into a club director deep in the bowels of Wembley
His team had just won yet another trophy, and I asked him when Liverpool's pre-eminence would end. He replied: "It will never end."
But it did, of course. All empires end. Otherwise we'd all be talking Latin. No, it's not a surprise that United's era is ending. It's just a pity it didn't happen sooner"
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  #2  
Old 17-03-2004, 10:03 AM
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I have a comedy fanzine style book 'Stand up if you hate Man U'
if anyone wants it.
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Old 17-03-2004, 10:08 AM
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Old 17-03-2004, 10:10 AM
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  #5  
Old 17-03-2004, 12:37 PM
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I would take this a bit more seriously if Mick Dennis hadn't used the Cantona incident to 'comic' effect in other articles when it's suited him.

And I don't know quite why he believes Liverpool weren't as despised in the 70's and 80's. They most certainly were.
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Old 17-03-2004, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neil the Eagle

And I don't know quite why he believes Liverpool weren't as despised in the 70's and 80's. They most certainly were.
Where they really though Neil?

I always thought Liverpool back then got a lot of credit for just getting on with the game and letting their football do the talking. Whereas Man U are just arrogant etc etc....
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Old 17-03-2004, 01:39 PM
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I think most people got fed up with Liverpool winning everything and usually supported whoever they were playing in the cup final. But they didn't inspire the same level of outright hatred that Man Utd generate - they were simply deemed too boring and efficient. You can't really compare Bob Paisley and Alec Ferguson can you? Furthermore I for one liked to see Liverpool do well in the European Cup and felt some sense of pride when they won it. Whereas I just want Man Utd to lose whoever they are playing.
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Old 17-03-2004, 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Hatch
I think most people got fed up with Liverpool winning everything and usually supported whoever they were playing in the cup final. But they didn't inspire the same level of outright hatred that Man Utd generate - they were simply deemed too boring and efficient. You can't really compare Bob Paisley and Alec Ferguson can you? Furthermore I for one liked to see Liverpool do well in the European Cup and felt some sense of pride when they won it. Whereas I just want Man Utd to lose whoever they are playing.
I'd agree with this. Even a mate who was an Everton fan had respect for that Liverpool era - it just wasn't beautiful football, and in the end became too tedious. Everybody I knew was pleased if they lost a trophy, because it was nice to spread them out a bit, but I don't think there was ever any particular joy about a normal league defeat. I'd also say that in Europe most people backed Liverpool because they were the "our" team. For Utd the joy of seeing them come unstuck in Europe is as great, if not greater than seeing them lose at home.

I have to say that the thought of the prawn sandwich and commuter brigade turning their attention elsewhere and leaving great gaps in the Old Trafford stands as the "support" gets bored with no trophies is one I can't contemplate with out a smile!
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Old 17-03-2004, 02:20 PM
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Liverpool not arrogant? Do me a favour! Some of you must be too young or have particularly selective memories not to remember the drivel Paisley used to come out with to excuse the odd defeat. He tried the wrong colour shirt trick long before Fergie.

Anyone remember Thompson pathetic attempts to excuse the foul he made on Forest player which started the phrase 'the professional foul'?

All successful teams gain a measure of arrogance.
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Old 17-03-2004, 02:31 PM
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Have Palace (n)ever been an arrogant side?
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Old 17-03-2004, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scroatey
Have Palace (n)ever been an arrogant side?
We have never be successful enough to be arrogant!

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I've always been extremely disappointed at the number of Chelsea 'fans' from the Wallington/Carshalton/Sutton area. They have no place here. They are not wanted.

If they've suffered a bit of distress this weekend... good.

Please allow decent Palace fans like c_block_lad his moment of happiness. He's living on the front line, and doing a marvellous job.

Keep the striped flag flying high.
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Old 17-03-2004, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neil the Eagle
Liverpool not arrogant? Do me a favour!
Maybe it is just that the memory fades with time Neil!!

Certainly don't remember the wrong colour shirt etc... but then I am kind of old now!
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Old 17-03-2004, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neil the Eagle
I would take this a bit more seriously if Mick Dennis hadn't used the Cantona incident to 'comic' effect in other articles when it's suited him.
....
You make some good points Neil but I think you are being a little unfair. I haven't agreed with everything you have written but it doesn't stop me reading your articles.

By the way I agree with you to some extent about the Liverpool domination years in that they did assume a mantle of arrogance but I don't think they ever reached the levels of dislike achieved by Man U.
Infact I think the nearest to them has to be the Don Revie Leeds Utd side. Now they were despicable at their peak.

I think in some ways it is down to our 'British' sense of fair play. We can handle winners but not if they are lucky as well - which is probably why Michael Schumacher is disliked so much - he could fall down a lavatory and come up smelling of Issy Myake - and that's on top of being a supreme talent - it just ain't fair!
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Old 17-03-2004, 03:22 PM
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Sorry, reposted when editing, and the 'magic word writer' won't let me delete my error.
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Old 17-03-2004, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scirocco
You make some good points Neil but I think you are being a little unfair. I haven't agreed with everything you have written but it doesn't stop me reading your articles.

Infact I think the nearest to them has to be the Don Revie Leeds Utd side. Now they were despicable at their peak.

I think in some ways it is down to our 'British' sense of fair play. We can handle winners but not if they are lucky as well - which is probably why Michael Schumacher is disliked so much - he could fall down a lavatory and come up smelling of Issy Myake - and that's on top of being a supreme talent - it just ain't fair!
Seeing Mick Dennis's name on an article won't stop me reading it, indeed if anything I'm more likely to read it, to spot how many of his own views he's polarised this week.

Spot on about Leeds, Pretty much the whole country became Sunderland fans in 1973.

I happen to be big Schumacher fan and I'm beginning to suspect that he is actually better than my all time idols of Prost and Lauda. The major problem with Schui from a British perspective is that he's German, rather than being wonderfully talented and occasionally very lucky.
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Old 18-03-2004, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neil the Eagle
all time idols of Prost and Lauda.
I just knew it. I had a sneaking feeling you were a 'Top' bloke, now I know it to be true. A 'proper' F1 fan AND a Palace man through and through. You can't get better credentials than this surely?

PS Clark, Lauda, Villeneuve, (Gilles) Prost, Senna, & Schumacher are my top 6
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Old 18-03-2004, 12:11 PM
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I've came to like Man U over the last few years because I had respect for a lot of their players. This current bunch of shylocks (Van Nistelroy and Scholes aside) I find hard to cheer for.
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Old 18-03-2004, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scifo
I've came to like Man U over the last few years because I had respect for a lot of their players. This current bunch of shylocks (Van Nistelroy and Scholes aside) I find hard to cheer for.
You respect the arrogant, cheating, diving Dutchman???

I find him the hardest to cheer for out of a very "uncheerable" lot.
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Old 18-03-2004, 12:32 PM
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And is it just me or do they have a disproportionate amount of ginger supporters?!
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Old 18-03-2004, 12:41 PM
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Is Mr. Dennis an Arsenal fan by any chance because if he thinks people don't hate Arsene Wenger and his arrogant team then he is very mistaken....and as for bringing the game into disrepute by on-field verbal attacks on refs then he need look no further than Arsenal...

Nothing like a populist one-eyed article to get the crowd going (typical Daily Express)....

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