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  #121  
Old 09-02-2019, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Ardent Eagle Forever View Post
Something like six to eight players left cpfc for queen's park handbags in about eighteen months after venables went to rangers. Always hated him for that.

Also seem to remember noades doing a talk post venables saying that there was over £400 k missing off the books when venables left.
Who else apart from Burridge, Fenwick, Sealy and Allen? Because I’m struggling to remember, all I do remember is apart from John Burridge, it was no-one I was bothered about.
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  #122  
Old 09-02-2019, 01:26 PM
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Who else apart from Burridge, Fenwick, Sealy and Allen? Because I’m struggling to remember, all I do remember is apart from John Burridge, it was no-one I was bothered about.
I always thought it was 3.
I'd forgotten Sealy.
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  #123  
Old 09-02-2019, 01:53 PM
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Gerry Francis I think, also Steve Wicks came to us from QPR then buggered off back to where he came from a few months later.
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  #124  
Old 09-02-2019, 02:12 PM
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The rot imo opinion and when the great feeling around the place first started to decline was late September ‘79 and just after we had gone top when Venables had a right whinge in his programme notes about the ‘small’ size our crowds. We were getting 28/29000 and at the end of the season we were the sixth best average attendance in the country. Don’t know why TV did that.
My memory of those days 77-80 is still as fresh as a Doris so any questions Al just ask. Neil everitt must have thousands of photos from those days and Nigel Sands brain must be a hive of info
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  #125  
Old 09-02-2019, 08:36 PM
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The rot imo opinion and when the great feeling around the place first started to decline was late September ‘79 and just after we had gone top when Venables had a right whinge in his programme notes about the ‘small’ size our crowds. We were getting 28/29000 and at the end of the season we were the sixth best average attendance in the country. Don’t know why TV did that.
My memory of those days 77-80 is still as fresh as a Doris so any questions Al just ask. Neil everitt must have thousands of photos from those days and Nigel Sands brain must be a hive of info
I think December it really started to go wrong on the pitch, we got beat 3-0 at Anfield then 3-0 against the weed on Boxing Day and it was a real struggle for points the rest of the season. Then King Kenny left in the summer and the rot really started to set in.
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  #126  
Old 09-02-2019, 08:48 PM
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I always felt that the purchasing of Gerry Francis and Mike Flanagan disrupted/upset the team, and I say that knowing the team started the season well with them. I know at the time it pissed me off the promotion team was not given a chance to struggle first before tinkering with the team, plus I had a personal irrational dislike for Francis long before he ever came to Palace.

Francis pretty much took Kember's place, and I always felt Kember was the missing piece of the jig-saw in the promotion team. Flanagan came in and initially replaced Walsh, but ultimately replaced Swindlehurst breaking up the very successful partnership they had, and allegedly causing major friction between the two (Swindlehurst and Walsh) off the field.

It just seemed like it was going to end in tears, which I guess it did.
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  #127  
Old 10-02-2019, 04:41 AM
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They were a bunch of kids that only knew success. Right from their early youth days coming through together, it was just an upward trajectory. They didn’t know failure. The minute they hit a bump in the road around midway into that first season in Division 1, they struggled to cope.

In fact it was the Liverpool 3-0 mauling at Anfield that began the slide. The players went into that game like all the others, not fearing the opposition and believing they could win. A lot of paper talk in the build up about the ‘team of the 80’s’ coming along to take Liverpool’s crown, and the young players bought into it. That Liverpool side ripped us apart.

If you look at the stats, we’d lost just 4 games out of our first 22 games before that Liverpool match. The following 26 games saw us defeated 12 times.

Then Kenny left in the summer against his will. Came into training as normal and Venners shouted out from his office, ‘don’t bother getting changed, you’re off to Arsenal.’ Soon after Venners himself jumped ship after a ropey start and that was that. The kids that had come through worshipped him and basically were lost without their ‘dad’. Vince admitted that he was looking to leave the very minute Venners went to QPR. The remaining players showed absolutely no respect to Gradi after the short lived Big Mal stint.

Very sad to have to live through that slide. We went from top dogs and 20,000 + home crowds to a struggling Div 2 side playing in front of less than 10,000 within a couple of seasons. That beautiful sun and promise of ‘79 was replaced by heavy, dark clouds around the place, symbolised by the demise of the Whitehorse End, with ugly boarding and a smattering of supporters replacing an attractive looking terrace packed to the gunnels with excited red, white and blue fans.
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  #128  
Old 10-02-2019, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Am Phibian View Post
The rot imo opinion and when the great feeling around the place first started to decline was late September ‘79 and just after we had gone top when Venables had a right whinge in his programme notes about the ‘small’ size our crowds. We were getting 28/29000 and at the end of the season we were the sixth best average attendance in the country. Don’t know why TV did that.
I think his point would have been, if we had 51,000 for a Div 2 promotion decider, we should be getting bigger crowds than we were for a top side in Div 1.
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  #129  
Old 10-02-2019, 11:53 AM
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I always felt that the purchasing of Gerry Francis and Mike Flanagan disrupted/upset the team, and I say that knowing the team started the season well with them. I know at the time it pissed me off the promotion team was not given a chance to struggle first before tinkering with the team, plus I had a personal irrational dislike for Francis long before he ever came to Palace.

Francis pretty much took Kember's place, and I always felt Kember was the missing piece of the jig-saw in the promotion team. Flanagan came in and initially replaced Walsh, but ultimately replaced Swindlehurst breaking up the very successful partnership they had, and allegedly causing major friction between the two (Swindlehurst and Walsh) off the field.

It just seemed like it was going to end in tears, which I guess it did.
Didn't really think much of Flanagan
All that Flanagan and Allen rubbish as you said it was only heading one way
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  #130  
Old 10-02-2019, 12:25 PM
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The rot imo opinion and when the great feeling around the place first started to decline was late September ‘79 and just after we had gone top when Venables had a right whinge in his programme notes about the ‘small’ size our crowds. We were getting 28/29000 and at the end of the season we were the sixth best average attendance in the country. Don’t know why TV did that.
My memory of those days 77-80 is still as fresh as a Doris so any questions Al just ask. Neil everitt must have thousands of photos from those days and Nigel Sands brain must be a hive of info
Probably because he had his hands in the turnstile tills.
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  #131  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:17 PM
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I think his point would have been, if we had 51,000 for a Div 2 promotion decider, we should be getting bigger crowds than we were for a top side in Div 1.
If that were the case, which it was, then he was being plain daft and not a little destructive. It was a freak attendance. Everyone knew that except for Venables it now appears. We averaged 23,000 in that promotion season and had an immediate 25% increase on that in our first five games at home once back in the top division. We were the third best supported club in London yet he still had to have a moan. Arsenal and Tottenham averaged around 35,000 78/79 and if he expected us to match them he was barking.
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  #132  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by monkey View Post
Who else apart from Burridge, Fenwick, Sealy and Allen? Because I’m struggling to remember, all I do remember is apart from John Burridge, it was no-one I was bothered about.
Didn’t Steve Wicks and Francis go there too?.
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  #133  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:25 PM
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Gerry Francis I think, also Steve Wicks came to us from QPR then buggered off back to where he came from a few months later.
This ^^^
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  #134  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:26 PM
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Think in a league game at loftus rd burridge got kicked up the ass by a palace fan and very heavy aggro afterwards in that fa cup game ( quarter final I think).
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Last edited by orp pisshead1; 10-02-2019 at 02:36 PM.
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  #135  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Am Phibian View Post
If that were the case, which it was, then he was being plain daft and not a little destructive. It was a freak attendance. Everyone knew that except for Venables it now appears. We averaged 23,000 in that promotion season and had an immediate 25% increase on that in our first five games at home once back in the top division. We were the third best supported club in London yet he still had to have a moan. Arsenal and Tottenham averaged around 35,000 78/79 and if he expected us to match them he was barking.
On the other side of the argument you could say that in the four season period 69-73 we had a better average than 79/80 with a struggling team, however the economic situation in the late 70's ear!y 80s was much worse than that of 69-73, which may well be the reason gates were not so good, plus the issues over crowd troubles was also much more in the news
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  #136  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:33 PM
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Didn’t Steve Wicks and Francis go there too?.
And Flanagan (I think).
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  #137  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:43 PM
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They were a bunch of kids that only knew success. Right from their early youth days coming through together, it was just an upward trajectory. They didn’t know failure. The minute they hit a bump in the road around midway into that first season in Division 1, they struggled to cope.

In fact it was the Liverpool 3-0 mauling at Anfield that began the slide. The players went into that game like all the others, not fearing the opposition and believing they could win. A lot of paper talk in the build up about the ‘team of the 80’s’ coming along to take Liverpool’s crown, and the young players bought into it. That Liverpool side ripped us apart.

If you look at the stats, we’d lost just 4 games out of our first 22 games before that Liverpool match. The following 26 games saw us defeated 12 times.

Then Kenny left in the summer against his will. Came into training as normal and Venners shouted out from his office, ‘don’t bother getting changed, you’re off to Arsenal.’ Soon after Venners himself jumped ship after a ropey start and that was that. The kids that had come through worshipped him and basically were lost without their ‘dad’. Vince admitted that he was looking to leave the very minute Venners went to QPR. The remaining players showed absolutely no respect to Gradi after the short lived Big Mal stint.

Very sad to have to live through that slide. We went from top dogs and 20,000 + home crowds to a struggling Div 2 side playing in front of less than 10,000 within a couple of seasons. That beautiful sun and promise of ‘79 was replaced by heavy, dark clouds around the place, symbolised by the demise of the Whitehorse End, with ugly boarding and a smattering of supporters replacing an attractive looking terrace packed to the gunnels with excited red, white and blue fans.
Venables did not jump ship, Bloye more or less sacked him when TV asked for support from the board. In fact Bloye had already been chasing Everton's Howard Wilkinson who turned Bloye down. Bloye engineered TV's departure and the players who followed him to QPR (not as many as some people suggest and over a longer period of time) were sold mainly to balance the club's very poor financial state.

Any "missing" money Ron found when he took over was as I recall laid at booted door not Venables. In fact I am fairly certain TV was still owed money he was never paid a promised bonus for winning promotion in 79'. Ron found the cupboard was bare in terms of cash when he took over abroad had to sell players to try and keep the debtors at bay. The money from the Sainsbury's deal never seemed to have made it into the club's finances, that is where our problems started and we still suffer from this day.
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  #138  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:56 PM
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Venables did not jump ship, Bloye more or less sacked him when TV asked for support from the board. In fact Bloye had already been chasing Everton's Howard Wilkinson who turned Bloye down. Bloye engineered TV's departure and the players who followed him to QPR (not as many as some people suggest and over a longer period of time) were sold mainly to balance the club's very poor financial state.

Any "missing" money Ron found when he took over was as I recall laid at booted door not Venables. In fact I am fairly certain TV was still owed money he was never paid a promised bonus for winning promotion in 79'. Ron found the cupboard was bare in terms of cash when he took over abroad had to sell players to try and keep the debtors at bay. The money from the Sainsbury's deal never seemed to have made it into the club's finances, that is where our problems started and we still suffer from this day.
I don't think Ive ever seen anyone suggest Venable was the poor innocent in the whole sorry sage before.
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  #139  
Old 10-02-2019, 02:04 PM
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On the other side of the argument you could say that in the four season period 69-73 we had a better average than 79/80 with a struggling team, however the economic situation in the late 70's ear!y 80s was much worse than that of 69-73, which may well be the reason gates were not so good, plus the issues over crowd troubles was also much more in the news
I see your point but only one of those earlier seasons had a better average with 29,900 and that was the one which was our very first season in the top flight ever. 79/80 was 29,800 or thereabouts.

In relative terms our gates were very good in 1978/79 with only the big 5 having higher attendances. Venables view was ill thought out and unwise and remember it not going down well at all on the terraces and local rags.
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  #140  
Old 10-02-2019, 02:09 PM
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This might be a bit of a conspiracy theory, but a story I heard, was that after the L'Pool 0-3 game, Palace were due to play West Brom, on the Friday night before Xmas. Very late in the day, it started snowing heavily and about 45 mins before KO, the game was called off.
At the time, WBA were really struggling and this would have been a great chance to bounce back from the L'Pool debacle.
But as the game was postponed, the players (obviously already at the ground) were allowed to have a 'night out'.
The story goes, on this night out, was that Ian Walsh was mouthing off at Swindlehurst that he (DS) wouldn't get his place back in the team, because Walsh was better than him. Apparently an altercation occurred, as a result. Venables wasn't there, but heard what happened and took Walsh's side and not long after, Swindlehurst was packed off to Derby, on loan (signed for them permanently, eventually).
Apparently a lot of the players, respected Swindlehurst and didn't like Walsh and were pretty upset about the whole thing
Obviously this did very little for team spirit, which might explain the inept display at the Goldstone Ground on Boxing Day, a few days later.
And of course, things gradually got worse and worse.
Just repeating a story I was told, many moons ago.
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