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  #1061  
Old 03-01-2019, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Hedgehog View Post
I suggested on here about two months ago that Guiata should come in for the in-form Hen to help the change the impetus of the team from the back. So I'm taking some credit for this.

It's not just his reactions and mobility compared to Henno; the way he reads the game is great, his positioning and feet, he's calm and the defence has confidence in him.

Many times now, Guiata has pre-empted and gathered crosses which would have been a crisis for Henno. He makes it look easy.

Very similar player to Speroni. Relies on his wits and incredible reflexes rather than his size. He's added leadership from the back that Hennessey unfortunately could never provide.
I don't think you should take any credit as I really don't think your opinion had any effect. The credit should only go to Hennessey's back spasm and Guaita for taking his chance.
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  #1062  
Old 03-01-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Owngoal View Post
Since the poor cup game he has done well. One poor clearance last night where he fell over as he kicked straight to a Wolves player but the defence dealt with it so who cares. We have not had a keeper problem for a year now. We are not however scoring as many goals as we should do. What is the point of corner after corner when it never gets to a Palace player? Our GD is -7 after last night and that could be worth a place come seasons end. I still think we need a young up and coming keeper as third choice ASAP as we have two good keepers with four or five years and Henn is bound to get the odd back problem. Only a wanker would want any Palace player to fail (and we know who they are from the Hennessy thread)
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Rather have VD than VG.......
From the Palace/Leicester game.

You're a bit weird.
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  #1063  
Old 03-01-2019, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Owngoal View Post
Since the poor cup game he has done well. One poor clearance last night where he fell over as he kicked straight to a Wolves player but the defence dealt with it so who cares. We have not had a keeper problem for a year now. We are not however scoring as many goals as we should do. What is the point of corner after corner when it never gets to a Palace player? Our GD is -7 after last night and that could be worth a place come seasons end. I still think we need a young up and coming keeper as third choice ASAP as we have two good keepers with four or five years and Henn is bound to get the odd back problem. Only a wanker would want any Palace player to fail (and we know who they are from the Hennessy thread)
But I thought a youth keeper would be better?
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  #1064  
Old 03-01-2019, 01:52 PM
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The key statistic for a goalkeeper is clean sheets kept. This season Henn has played 15 prem games keeping 4 clean sheets, whereas Guaita has kept 3 clean sheets in 5 prem games. On that form, Guaita has to be the first choice.

Assuming he gets a run of another 10 games the comparison will be better. I do not expect another 6 clean sheets in his next 10 games, but 4 would be pretty good.
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  #1065  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ifill Over View Post
The key statistic for a goalkeeper is clean sheets kept. This season Henn has played 15 prem games keeping 4 clean sheets, whereas Guaita has kept 3 clean sheets in 5 prem games. On that form, Guaita has to be the first choice.

Assuming he gets a run of another 10 games the comparison will be better. I do not expect another 6 clean sheets in his next 10 games, but 4 would be pretty good.
Rubbish.

That would imply that a keeper who played in a game where the opposition did not have a shot at our goal, has played better than one who has made 20 saves in a 1-1 draw.
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  #1066  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:19 PM
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Early days but he just looks like a top keeper in a similar way that Nigel Martyn did immediately he came in for Suckling.

Despite a significant improvement in the last 12m Henno never convinces me.
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  #1067  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:22 PM
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  #1068  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:26 PM
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Now we just need an extraordinary striker!
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  #1069  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackTheBiscuit View Post
Early days but he just looks like a top keeper in a similar way that Nigel Martyn did immediately he came in for Suckling.

Despite a significant improvement in the last 12m Henno never convinces me.
For all his flaws, I've always quite liked Hennessey. But I agree with this. There's always been something about him that has just made me nervous or uncomfortable. Even when Guaita has had his shaky moments, I just generally feel more relaxed about him being in the net.

It's an odd one.
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  #1070  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:27 PM
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Looks fantastic. Love the way he steps up and plays as part of the defence. IMHO the current back 5 is, by some stretch, the best we have ever had. Enjoy!
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  #1071  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:30 PM
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He looks happy playing as well, I was worried we had decent keeper at last and although I understood why Wayne couldn't be dropped, I thought we'd end up losing Guaita and for him to be unhappy coming here and sitting on the bench. Not that I wish injury or bad form on anyone I am just glad he could finally get into the team and hope he ends up our new Speroni, it seems hard to dislike him at the moment.
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  #1072  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by costello View Post
Looks fantastic. Love the way he steps up and plays as part of the defence. IMHO the current back 5 is, by some stretch, the best we have ever had. Enjoy!
It is a very good back 5,but you would go a long way to beat any back 4 Nigel martyn had in front of him
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  #1073  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:42 PM
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I would criticise the criticism on this thread
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  #1074  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by sideburns7 View Post
It is a very good back 5,but you would go a long way to beat any back 4 Nigel martyn had in front of him
er.....John Humphrey ffs.

Whilst O'Rielly, Ninja, Andy Thorn, Paul Bodin and especially Mark Dennis were a great set in our history I think that this defence is just far more talented.
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  #1075  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:53 PM
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I find the goalkeeping debate at Palace quite amusing. In my opinion, the following things are true:

- For much of his time at Palace, Hennessey has been poor
- Notwithstanding that, however, some fans took to blaming him for every goal and giving him no credit for any decent performances. I’ve even seen him criticised for not saving a penalty.
- And, of course, the reverse was true for Hennessey supporters.

In the latter part of last season and particularly in this season, Hennessey’s form improved significantly. This improvement was, inevitably underplayed by the Hennessey-haters (‘he’s now just adequate’) and over-played by his fans. Imo, his form this season was more than ‘adequate’ – he has been a good Premier League keeper.
Guiata has now come in and is rightly now first choice. He is the better keeper – and the better long-term prospect (would Hennessey’s improved form have lasted?) But the exaggerated comments both ways have continued (for example, Hennessey-haters absolved him of any blame for the De Bruyne goal, but would have undoubtedly criticised Hennessey in the same circumstances).

I think we’ve actually been really lucky with how it has worked out this season. I’m not convinced Guiata was ready for the first team at the start of the season (as evidenced by his League Cup performances) and had he played from the start it might have ruined his Palace career. So we were lucky that Hennessey started the season in form. But I think we’ve also been fortunate with the timing of Hennessey’s injury – which has given Guiata the chance to come in and now we have the right man taking over the goalkeeper’s jersey when he was ready to do so.
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  #1076  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
er.....John Humphrey ffs.

Whilst O'Rielly, Ninja, Andy Thorn, Paul Bodin and especially Mark Dennis were a great set in our history I think that this defence is just far more talented.
Yup.

Think Tomkins is as good a CB as any in the England squad, Sakho is getting into the squad of the world champions, PVA is one of the best attacking Left Full Backs there is at the moment and AWB a hugely exciting young talent.

Back in front of Martyn you have 4 out and out defenders, not sure how they would have survived in the modern game with so much expected in an attacking sense from defenders now.
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  #1077  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
I find the goalkeeping debate at Palace quite amusing. In my opinion, the following things are true:

- For much of his time at Palace, Hennessey has been poor
- Notwithstanding that, however, some fans took to blaming him for every goal and giving him no credit for any decent performances. I’ve even seen him criticised for not saving a penalty.
- And, of course, the reverse was true for Hennessey supporters.

In the latter part of last season and particularly in this season, Hennessey’s form improved significantly. This improvement was, inevitably underplayed by the Hennessey-haters (‘he’s now just adequate’) and over-played by his fans. Imo, his form this season was more than ‘adequate’ – he has been a good Premier League keeper.
Guiata has now come in and is rightly now first choice. He is the better keeper – and the better long-term prospect (would Hennessey’s improved form have lasted?) But the exaggerated comments both ways have continued (for example, Hennessey-haters absolved him of any blame for the De Bruyne goal, but would have undoubtedly criticised Hennessey in the same circumstances).

I think we’ve actually been really lucky with how it has worked out this season. I’m not convinced Guiata was ready for the first team at the start of the season (as evidenced by his League Cup performances) and had he played from the start it might have ruined his Palace career. So we were lucky that Hennessey started the season in form. But I think we’ve also been fortunate with the timing of Hennessey’s injury – which has given Guiata the chance to come in and now we have the right man taking over the goalkeeper’s jersey when he was ready to do so.
Lot of sense in there.
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  #1078  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:59 PM
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  #1079  
Old 03-01-2019, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
er.....John Humphrey ffs.

Whilst O'Rielly, Ninja, Andy Thorn, Paul Bodin and especially Mark Dennis were a great set in our history I think that this defence is just far more talented.
I think Nigel is the best keeper we've had ,but this back four is very good
I thought Humphrey was alright
Maybe it's blurred memory
But after that 9- nil that back four had to be reshaped,we played Southampton on the Saturday and went just to show some support for Perry
Tomkins deserves an England call up but I doubt he will get it
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:41 PM
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The issue with all of this is how to evaluate a goalkeeper. All we really have to go on is our eyes. If you take shot stopping, which is only one part of goalkeeping all the normal fan has “X would have saved that” based on his eyes.

Now your stats guy would say we can evaluate a keeper based on “post shot expected goals” and Hennessey was bottom of the Premier Laegie in that and even after his improvement is still fourth bottom. And that will support what some people see with their eyes, but unless you know reaction times, shot strength, shot placement / distance travelled by the keeper / by the ball etc (which we know some of but certainly not al and probably not most) then even post shot expected goals, which is clearly better than they eye test over a big enough sample, remains quite crude. Some other sports do look at this sort of thing (baseball has fielding stats known as defensive runs saved which is not entirely dissimilar to how post shot expected goals works, but the sample size required to get comfortable was really quite large like a couple of years)

Until someone can accurately measure the individual elements (which they can now do in baseball for fielders, through having cameras tracing them all) then it is going to remain subjective. What we can learn from baseball though is that fans, and frankly players and coaches based on their eyes get lots and lots of this wrong.

And that’s just shot stopping. We can see that teams valuing other elements of keepers more now, like the ability with the ball at their feet which a number of clubs (mainly those with lots of resources and consequently more data analaysis and better scouting) have been targeting.
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