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  #41  
Old 29-03-2019, 10:45 PM
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PalaceSi PalaceSi is offline
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Their moment in the sun will disappear as soon as we have a GE which frankly might be very soon even if they do have some palatable views.
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  #42  
Old 29-03-2019, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Stellavista View Post
Oh, while the 'kicking the establishment' element of the Brexit vote is undoubtedly true, I wouldn't underestimate how many thick xenophobic c*nts there are out there. And some of them are the same people. Whatever the reasons to justify this national act of self-harm, stupidity is still the top answer, Les.
Is it naivety that I try to see the best in people? Maybe. Is there an element of nationalism being the last refuge of scoundrels? Quite likely. I still think there's a significant portion of people that voted did so for the reasons outlined above though, perhaps through a lack of education of how the EU works and for Leave lies. I just still have a huge sense of disappointment with the fact nobody in Westminster has really taken the bull by the horns, blown Brexit wide open and explained why it's fundamentally flawed, should be stopped but whilst doing so in a delicate enough way to avoid a cataclysmic split of the country down the middle and trying to build bridges.

Probably all wishful thinking, but it's my little dream of what could have been.
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  #43  
Old 29-03-2019, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JDawg View Post
Amen. Im even yearning for a re run of the 2011 referendum at present.
What, the rigged one? Never a proper option for PR offered.
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  #44  
Old 29-03-2019, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TennesseeKing View Post
Surely you wouldn't deny there is still an element of anyone who voted for Brexit is thick, racist, insert any other derogatory term you wish here. That was the main point I was going for, that within this clamour for a return to the status quo issues underlying the whole debacle haven't been addressed and there appears to be no real desire to do so. Which is an outright shame. It wasn't really about having a dig at anyone on here, although there is without doubt tribal shite spouted on here on the regular.
But surely this whole brexit fiasco has brought us much nearer a very right wing, tax dodging, disaster capitalist utopia that skilfully blamed the EU and immigrants for the faults of UK governments so that a tiny rich minority could make you work for less than the minimum wage, make you pay another mortgage for healthcare and channel funds through tax havens that should be going to education and pensions.
If you think JRM, Boris de Pfeffel and IDS would wipe their feet on the working classes and redress inequality then the press really have been successful
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  #45  
Old 29-03-2019, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnybegood View Post
But surely this whole brexit fiasco has brought us much nearer a very right wing, tax dodging, disaster capitalist utopia that skilfully blamed the EU and immigrants for the faults of UK governments so that a tiny rich minority could make you work for less than the minimum wage, make you pay another mortgage for healthcare and channel funds through tax havens that should be going to education and pensions.
If you think JRM, Boris de Pfeffel and IDS would wipe their feet on the working classes and redress inequality then the press really have been successful
I voted remain, still wish to see us remain. I just don't want a return to the status quo of centrist Blairite and Cameron style politics. By no means does that mean any old change is better, and the example you've listed of a JRM/Boris style change is enough to make you nauseous.

Personally, I'm just not one for revert to the previous because it was less bad. If they're all shit, they should all be consigned to the dustbins of history.

Just to clear up any confusion, my comments on returning to the status quo are to do with Change UK/TIG or whatever they want to call themselves. I do not support any of the current attempts at Brexit at all either.
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  #46  
Old 29-03-2019, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TennesseeKing View Post
Is it naivety that I try to see the best in people? Maybe. Is there an element of nationalism being the last refuge of scoundrels? Quite likely. I still think there's a significant portion of people that voted did so for the reasons outlined above though, perhaps through a lack of education of how the EU works and for Leave lies. I just still have a huge sense of disappointment with the fact nobody in Westminster has really taken the bull by the horns, blown Brexit wide open and explained why it's fundamentally flawed, should be stopped but whilst doing so in a delicate enough way to avoid a cataclysmic split of the country down the middle and trying to build bridges.

Probably all wishful thinking, but it's my little dream of what could have been.
See, to me, this is where Labour should have taken this on. Explained why it's a bad idea, acknowledged the root causes of the Leave vote (if you believe it's a protest vote) and set out a means to tackle inequality whilst revoking A50.

Instead...
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  #47  
Old 29-03-2019, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
See, to me, this is where Labour should have taken this on. Explained why it's a bad idea, acknowledged the root causes of the Leave vote (if you believe it's a protest vote) and set out a means to tackle inequality whilst revoking A50.

Instead...
The shit show that we've got now ensued. 100 percent. Huge opportunity missed for Labour, but then I don't believe Corbyn is the man to bring said change through. I like his politics, too much baggage to ever be the PM though, and probably not enough ability and presence to play the role.
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  #48  
Old 29-03-2019, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
See, to me, this is where Labour should have taken this on. Explained why it's a bad idea, acknowledged the root causes of the Leave vote (if you believe it's a protest vote) and set out a means to tackle inequality whilst revoking A50.

Instead...
Agreed....put forward a positive vision that the disenfranchised could buy into,
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  #49  
Old 29-03-2019, 11:48 PM
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Stellavista Stellavista is offline
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Originally Posted by TennesseeKing View Post
Is it naivety that I try to see the best in people? Maybe. Is there an element of nationalism being the last refuge of scoundrels? Quite likely. I still think there's a significant portion of people that voted did so for the reasons outlined above though, perhaps through a lack of education of how the EU works and for Leave lies. I just still have a huge sense of disappointment with the fact nobody in Westminster has really taken the bull by the horns, blown Brexit wide open and explained why it's fundamentally flawed, should be stopped but whilst doing so in a delicate enough way to avoid a cataclysmic split of the country down the middle and trying to build bridges.

Probably all wishful thinking, but it's my little dream of what could have been.
And it's an admirable dream. I just don't share your faith in humanity, I guess. You're advocating reasonable discussion and gentle persuasion. If we were ever at that point, we're likely well past it now. Positions have become entrenched. What we have done, in an entirely accidental act of altruism, is provided a lesson in how not to address the issue of leaving the Union for any other member nations contemplating it. Brexit martyrs. Rebels without a brain.
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