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  #201  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:31 AM
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As an aside for those on a four day week:

Over half (69 percent) also report lower stress levels, and 75 percent report less illness in the workplace
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  #202  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:38 AM
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As an aside for those on a four day week:

Over half (69 percent) also report lower stress levels, and 75 percent report less illness in the workplace

Thanks. I hadn't seen that.


It's only one poll : and we all know that poll results can vary. I'd be wanting to see further substantiation and more in-depth analysis before I felt the nation was calling out for it.


I'd also want to be sure that people understood the implications of what they were asking for ; if we have learned one thing from the whole Tory EU fiasco it's surely that people don't always think too much about what they say they want.
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  #203  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
The anti union laws and the resulting weak unions means that what unions can do is often very limited.

But given we did move to a general culture of a five day week (for most), then canít see why that canít be done to a four day week given the astounding technological advances in the past few decades.
Nor do I but the problem here is it means less money. Not just for the worker but for the government as well.
You can wobble on all you want about the super rich but in reality less work means less money so won't be popular.
Also there's no one size fits all when it comes to work. If you look at retail for instance there's all sorts of hours being worked. Contract work and working from home have been covered.

I take it this is an idea dreamt up by your local socialist coven, why don't you put some of things that have been discussed on this thread to them and see if they have any idea how they fit in.
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  #204  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Thanks. I hadn't seen that.

It's only one poll : and we all know that poll results can vary. I'd be wanting to see further substantiation and more in-depth analysis before I felt the nation was calling out for it.

I'd also want to be sure that people understood the implications of what they were asking for ; if we have learned one thing from the whole Tory EU fiasco it's surely that people don't always think too much about what they say they want.
Yes but 75% is a big majority so I think itís probably safe to say a majority want it at the present time. And how important it is is obviously subjective but personally I think itís a huge issue.

On stress at work for the first time ever (apparently), most sick days are now down to stress.

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The above says that average time family spends together is under 40 minutes a day and 8/10 say they want more family time.
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  #205  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:45 AM
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Grim reading.
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  #206  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:47 AM
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On stress at work for the first time ever (apparently), most sick days are now down to stress.

I can believe that. But it's foolish (and I speak with some knowledge here) to think that this stress simply vanishes if people spend more time at home.



The better approach (and, hey what, I speak with some knowledge here !) is to create a less-stressed working environment and to teach employees how to better handle stress when they encounter it.
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  #207  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:48 AM
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Poor mental health affects half of all employees, according to a survey of 44,000 people carried out by the mental health charity Mind.
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  #208  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I can believe that. But it's foolish (and I speak with some knowledge here) to think that this stress simply vanishes if people spend more time at home.

The better approach (and, hey what, I speak with some knowledge here !) is to create a less-stressed working environment and to teach employees how to better handle stress when they encounter it.
I agree but Iím pretty sure more leisure time would help. I would absolutely love a four day week
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  #209  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I can believe that. But it's foolish (and I speak with some knowledge here) to think that this stress simply vanishes if people spend more time at home.



The better approach (and, hey what, I speak with some knowledge here !) is to create a less-stressed working environment and to teach employees how to better handle stress when they encounter it.
Indeed, itís far too simplistic to conclude that a 4 day week solves all stress-related issues. That survey quoted above spoke of staff squashing the same amount of work into one less day...it wasnít that the staff would actually do less work. So for many people those 4 days will be more loaded than ever before.

The one obvious positive is that the worker would have to commute to work for one less day, but that only benefits a percentage of workers.

And I agree that a simple yes/no survey can be very misleading when the responders donít know the true consequences of their choice.

Cockneyrebel bangs on about new technology as our saviour in this, but I bet a survey of stress triggers would list emails and mobile phones as high on the list of the causes. Demanding immediate attention from staff and colleagues, especially outside of core working hours, has surely made it considerably harder for people to unwind when theyíre meant to be off duty. Something which I know the French have been trying to improve with legislation.
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  #210  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:16 AM
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Indeed, itís far too simplistic to conclude that a 4 day week solves all stress-related issues. That survey quoted above spoke of staff squashing the same amount of work into one less day...it wasnít that the staff would actually do less work. So for many people those 4 days will be more loaded than ever before.

The one obvious positive is that the worker would have to commute to work for one less day, but that only benefits a percentage of workers.

And I agree that a simple yes/no survey can be very misleading when the responders donít know the true consequences of their choice.

Cockneyrebel bangs on about new technology as our saviour in this, but I bet a survey of stress triggers would list emails and mobile phones as high on the list of the causes. Demanding immediate attention from staff and colleagues, especially outside of core working hours, has surely made it considerably harder for people to unwind when theyíre meant to be off duty. Something which I know the French have been trying to improve with legislation.
Banging on? How very dare you.

The point isnít just about just doing a four day week, itís about a 28-32 hour week as well instead of a 35-40 hour week.

You are right that technology has increased stress but thatís because of how our society chooses to use it. Some companies give ďout of officesĒ saying any emails are automatically deleted while someone is off and gives a redirect. For instance.

There is no reason technology shouldnít be used to increase leisure time but instead itís being used to increase profits. I find it bizarre that people donít have an issue with that.

Itís surreal that there are longer hours worked now then a decade ago.
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  #211  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:36 AM
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Banging on? How very dare you.

The point isnít just about just doing a four day week, itís about a 28-32 hour week as well instead of a 35-40 hour week.

You are right that technology has increased stress but thatís because of how our society chooses to use it. Some companies give ďout of officesĒ saying any emails are automatically deleted while someone is off and gives a redirect. For instance.

There is no reason technology shouldnít be used to increase leisure time but instead itís being used to increase profits. I find it bizarre that people donít have an issue with that.

Itís surreal that there are longer hours worked now then a decade ago.
The survey wasnít to do less work but to squash it into fewer days...ie compressed.

If you want to do less work AND less hours, then thatís a 20% cut.

We seem to be going round in circles with this now because I know if I ask you how a company with cover that 20% loss in staffing, youíll say the government should cover it (as if the taxpayer doesnít have enough demands on them already!) or tax the billionaires.
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  #212  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:50 AM
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The survey wasnít to do less work but to squash it into fewer days...ie compressed.

If you want to do less work AND less hours, then thatís a 20% cut.

We seem to be going round in circles with this now because I know if I ask you how a company with cover that 20% loss in staffing, youíll say the government should cover it (as if the taxpayer doesnít have enough demands on them already!) or tax the billionaires.
Agreed it is circular.

But donít you find it a bit wrong that with all the technology in human advancements the working week hasnít decreased? You donít think society can decrease it in days and hours and this is as good as it gets?
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  #213  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:57 AM
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  #214  
Old 10-09-2019, 12:12 PM
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Agreed it is circular.

But donít you find it a bit wrong that with all the technology in human advancements the working week hasnít decreased? You donít think society can decrease it in days and hours and this is as good as it gets?
People get attached to cultural norms, even when changing them would be beneficial. I used to have a housemate who worked in hospitality, where they just get away with flagrantly ignoring working time regulations. 60 hours was a light week for her. Yet she could get very defensive if you criticised her employer. It's the cultural norm in that industry and just seems to be accepted by those in it as the way things are meant to be.

It's quite mad when you see that average working hours have halved in the last 150 years, all while the economy has continually grown, to think that we have suddenly hit peak working week-ness and any further change is unworkable. Also makes it all the more scandalous that working hours are now rising again. Ever since the Tories got back in, funnily enough....

My opinion is that a four day working week would be good.

But Universal Basic Income would be better.
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  #215  
Old 10-09-2019, 12:37 PM
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. Also makes it all the more scandalous that working hours are now rising again. Ever since the Tories got back in, funnily enough....
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Scandalous?
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  #216  
Old 10-09-2019, 12:43 PM
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Scandalous?
Well yes, considering they decreased year-on-year for 150ish years.

Reversing a 150 trend like that takes some serious incompetence.
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  #217  
Old 10-09-2019, 12:46 PM
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But it's foolish (and I speak with some knowledge here) to think that this stress simply vanishes if people spend more time at home.
It definitely is foolish. If anything it can make it worse.
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  #218  
Old 10-09-2019, 12:49 PM
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It definitely is foolish. If anything it can make it worse.
Except the available empirical evidence says it doesn't.

The one reservation I'd have with 4 day week at same pay is that there aren't enough or comprehensive trials out there for data.

But the ones that there are all clearly show stress decreases and well-being improves.
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  #219  
Old 10-09-2019, 12:50 PM
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Well yes, considering they decreased year-on-year for 150ish years.

Reversing a 150 trend like that takes some serious incompetence.
They are falling. And there is no evidence that any non-existent rise is due to the Tories.
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:50 PM
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Except the available empirical evidence says it doesn't.

The one reservation I'd have with 4 day week at same pay is that there aren't enough or comprehensive trials out there for data.

But the ones that there are all clearly show stress decreases and well-being improves.
And the source is?
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