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General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum.

View Poll Results: MOTM v West Ham
Guaita 186 33.27%
Ward 5 0.89%
Cahill 131 23.43%
Kelly 21 3.76%
Van Aanholt 40 7.16%
Kouyatť 19 3.40%
Schlupp 5 0.89%
McCarthy* 19 3.40%
McArthur 78 13.95%
Ayew ** 35 6.26%
Zaha 13 2.33%
Townsend * 1 0.18%
Benteke ** 6 1.07%
Voters: 559. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 06-10-2019, 02:40 PM
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City will need a Pep talk
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  #122  
Old 06-10-2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by teesdale99 View Post
Great post Martin. Itís really good to have your thoughtful views and detailed analysis back.

FWIW I marked the players the same as you except I gave PVA an 8. Lots of decent performances, Jimmy Mac edged if for my MOTM. Provided a great shield in the deeper role, lots of assured touches and turns (think of the praise heíd get if he was Latino!) and linked play very well. Thereís an argument to keep with this midfield and have luka on the bench. Similarly Kelly has done nothing wrong and it would be tough on him to lose out to the more talented but injury prone Sakho or Tomkins.

With a big slice of luck and some astute purchases in January itís very possible we could press for a top half finish. Striker, mobile and strong, a creative and m/or pacy wide striker and cover at full back would be lovely. Can we ship out benteke, Wickham, Dann and reidewald to accommodate?
Thks. TBH your score for PVA is as right as mine. The most impressive thing yesterday was the Ďteamí. I didnít pick a MOM but Macca deserves it I agree.

Kelly deserves his place too but itís a tough one for Roy. Not a bad problem to have unless one of them causes a stir but you would hope not.

Top half but probably not top 8 and TBH as much as I would love it if it happened I fear that a European place would be a huge risk for us right now. Love to be proven wrong though as I still bear the bitterness from the Heysel stadium disaster seeing us banned from taking our deserved spot there years back. Trying not to get too carried away with current position because our squad is fragile and without a proven goalscorer. I am one of the few holding out some hope of a Wickham return and resurgence OK, itís not a very big hope these days but itís still there, just.

Cheers
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  #123  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:06 PM
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Fantastic result and made doubly enjoyable by how outraged their fans seem to be that they should lose to such ‘a tinpot side’ as Palace. Seems they are now trying to make trouble for away fans and Wilf with post match stirring. Cheap and tacky rubbish as ever and so it couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch.

Evenly balanced over the 90mins with both sides gaining the upper hand at times and creating reasonable chances. I was impressed by how composed and focused we were throughout the whole game. Missing Luka could have gone badly but TBH if you didn’t know our Captain and ever present midfield cog was missing, you wouldn’t have guessed as the 2 macs and Kouyate dovetailed neatly together. The midfield may not have been pretty without the ball but they were everywhere closing their players down, swarming around them and nicking the ball. No gaping gaps in front of the back 4 this week. Our 2 CBs calmly marshalled their CF who has been a handful in earlier games. Not perfection, like Pooki, but impressive. Ward did very well with Andersen who regularly embarrasses a fab or two. PVA mostly did OK but again he sat off Fredericks giving him too much room to cross without beating him. He saw him, rightly stepped across to take him with the rest shuffling back as he did so but stopped a long way off him. A simple and accurate cross saw Haller strike home a simple one. Prior to that Guaita had made a couple of top saves in what was another very solid performance.

Ayew battled away throughout with no little skill and his constant harassing of defenders/midfield was key. Schlupp, again seems to have got both stick and praise on here. Again I thought he played well, not outstanding but not worthy if the crap he seems to have received again, but it’s just my opinion. Moves the ball on quickly and forward for the most part and into good spaces. Makes runs and gets back to do his bit defensively. Bear in mind he is the wide left forward in a 433 or maybe 451 (it’s very fluid but the way they operated seemed the former to me).

In the last 10 mins it was anyone’s game although I thought we were managing the game and ball the better at that point. And so it proved as we recirculated the ball following a FK with Andros sending Noble to the cleaners with a feint and dinked it into the box with his trusty left peg. Kelly had read it well, adjusted and kept onside (just) and nodded it to Jordan to tap home. Scenes..... albeit after a VAR drama.

Great result and I suspect we need it as the next month will be tough.

Guaita - 8 - top keeper and top performance. Badly needs to work on his left footed clearances but the rest is right up there.

Ward 7 - tough gig but did well. His passing needs more care but difficult o complain as he compensates with the rest.

Kelly - 8 - very solid performance against tough opposition.

Cahill - 8 - as Kelly. Great leadership from him too.

PVA - 7 - needed to close down the cross for their goal but his pen and overall performance made up for that.

Zaha - 7 - breathtaking in flashes and certainly did his defensive share. I can’t put my finger on it but something is different this year. He is still awesome but he is somehow more contained. I don’t know if this is him making different conscious decisions about when to take them on or what, but it’s different. Whichever side he is on, we do need him to threaten their goal more often.

McCarthy - 7 - great first start. Worked hard, cracking effort on goal and slotted in as if he had been here for years.

Macca - 8 - very impressive and so much tha we didn’t miss Luka.

Kouyate - 7 - everywhere and won the pen of course. Not his best game but important nonetheless.

Schlupp - 7 - played well, linked play, picked some good passes and made good runs. Also does his defensive share.

Ayew - 8 - never stopped, took his goal well and deserved it.

Subs, Benteke, don’t want to get on his case but we were underwhelmed with how he approached his handful of mins. There were a couple of moments he could have turned into something but....no.

Another great job from Roy who simple trundles on improving play and gathering points. No drama, just very focused. This squad really shouldn’t be in this position and it is to his credit that it is there. No top goalscorer, no fb cover and so on but he has it working. Things will go wrong, we will lose a lot of the upcoming fixtures but that shouldn’t/mustn’t spark panic, in the same way we shouldn’t expect the current state to mean CL. chill, and just enjoy it while it lasts. Dreaming is fine but be realistic about what happens.

Cheers and COYP
Great post and ratings Martin H, but it's not PvA's job to track the opposition full back's (Fredericks) overlapping runs (especially see 1:18-1:30) To view the link you have to Register or Login

Last edited by Krise; 06-10-2019 at 03:14 PM.
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  #124  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:16 PM
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Great post and ratings Martin H, but it's not PvA's job to track the opposition full back's (Fredericks) overlapping runs (especially see 1:23-1:28) .....
LOL - good old YouTube.

I get the theory about tracking back but in the situation we were in he was 100% PVAs man and more to the point perhaps PVA rightly moved towards him as he revived the ball, to take him, but then he stopped and stood off him instead. PVA put his hands up about it in post match too so I will stick with that. Thx though

It’s a nice video btw.
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Last edited by Martin H; 06-10-2019 at 03:21 PM.
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  #125  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:18 PM
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I thought Ayew was great, the keeper was brilliant the whole team made me feel very proud, top four we will be there for a couple of weeks.
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  #126  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:21 PM
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LOL - good old YouTube.

I get the theory about tracking back but in the situation we were in he was 100% PVAs man and more to the point perhaps PVA rightly moved towards him as he revived the ball, to take him, but then he stopped and stood off him instead. PVA put his hands up about it in post match too so I will stick with that. Thx though
Yarmolenko (number 7) was PvA's man, the left centre mid (Kouyate) should have covered for him pressing Yarmolenko as PVA needed to back off and provide cover for the CBs who were two on two, Fredericks was Schlupp's man 100 % imho.

Last edited by Krise; 06-10-2019 at 03:30 PM.
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  #127  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:27 PM
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Yarmolenko (number 7) was PvA's man, one of the centre mids should have covered for him pressing Yarmolenko, Fredericks was Schlupp's man 100 % imho.
Schlupp is only impressive in the oppositions final 3rd....when he strides forward with the ball. The rest of the time he is a liability and ineffectual. Saw him lose ball run back and then give up in no mans land. He is one of those players that looks busy but does very little
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  #128  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:31 PM
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The reasons are two-fold. 1. In tribute to the crossed Hammers on the West Ham crest, in order to show solidarity with West Ham fans because he ultimately thought it wasn't really a penalty and 2. He was demonstrating to Declan Rice how high your elbows can be before it's considered an unnatural movement and eligible for punishment.
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I assume we all love VAR now? Some atomic-level analysis to get us the 3 points!
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  #129  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Krise View Post
Yarmolenko (number 7) was PvA's man, one of the centre mids should have covered for him pressing Yarmolenko, Fredericks was Schlupp's man 100 % imho.
I genuinely get your point and 100% agree if attack had come down their right side. It had broken down their left and our team shuffled across the park. The 3 in the middle and Schlupp who was in the left forward spot of the 3.

So once it had switched they have to adapt. (This is hard on a keyboard) i.e. you wouldnít expect Schlupp to have ignored the right side attack and just follow Fredericks out wide, dead to play, and so in my view he covers the midfield space and provides an out ball for the defence in the very spot he occupied. As it was switched he canít cover that distance and so they have to adapt, Schlupp and Kouyate aim towards the space PVA was in and PVA steps out to close down. Apologies I am not as eloquent as Pearce and typing it is tough. Thatís what I believe/think is reasonable. TBH itís whatever Roy/Ray told them I guess. The point really is that the system takes care of things but there will always be times when they have to adapt and reset/transition. Switching of play from side to side is a handful if they do it quickly, which they did. If Fredericks had been further back up the pitch then Schlupp would have stopped in front of him. In general I agree although I think in practice it depends on how the mid 3 are allocated.

You see Ward doing this all the time. Wilf does an ok job at covering but he canít always be in both spots and so they do the same.

Thatís my thought anyway.
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Old 06-10-2019, 03:53 PM
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Blimey, sounds like we were just lucky to even play on the same pitch as such an amazing club. UEFA should really be giving them a bye to the Champions League final each year just for having such a fantastic stadium and a song about bubbles, they are entitled to it.
Seems the saviour of West Ham is now seen as the bloke they wanted to sell to us in the Summer, for a knock-down fee.
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  #131  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:56 PM
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I genuinely get your point and 100% agree if attack had come down their right side. It had broken down their left and our team shuffled across the park. The 3 in the middle and Schlupp who was in the left forward spot of the 3.

So once it had switched they have to adapt. (This is hard on a keyboard) i.e. you wouldn’t expect Schlupp to have ignored the right side attack and just follow Fredericks out wide, dead to play, and so in my view he covers the midfield space and provides an out ball for the defence in the very spot he occupied. As it was switched he can’t cover that distance and so they have to adapt, Schlupp and Kouyate aim towards the space PVA was in and PVA steps out to close down. Apologies I am not as eloquent as Pearce and typing it is tough. That’s what I believe/think is reasonable. TBH it’s whatever Roy/Ray told them I guess. The point really is that the system takes care of things but there will always be times when they have to adapt and reset/transition. Switching of play from side to side is a handful if they do it quickly, which they did. If Fredericks had been further back up the pitch then Schlupp would have stopped in front of him. In general I agree although I think in practice it depends on how the mid 3 are allocated.

You see Ward doing this all the time. Wilf does an ok job at covering but he can’t always be in both spots and so they do the same.

That’s my thought anyway.
It was a really well worked goal from West Ham. The quick switch of play created confusion, somebody had to press Yarmolenko, and if Schlupp was the closest, PvA should probably have been quicker to close down Fredericks. I think ideally it should have been Kouyate to close down Yarmolenko there though, and Schlupp to go wide. Perhaps the whole left side (LB, LCM and LW) will have to shoulder the blame though, and not 100 % Schlupp or PvA It's not easy to always position yourself perfectly, especially when play is shifted quickly from one side to the other.
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  #132  
Old 06-10-2019, 04:09 PM
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From TV Macca MOTM. Guaita great save and gives the back four confidence. Defence very good - even PVA! Schlupp at far for the cross leading to the goal he was slow to close the runner. Wilf always a threat. Ayew hard working and poachers goal. Midfield in control most of the game, didnít miss Luka too much - says more about his recent loss of form maybe.
Great to go into an international break on the back of two wins, a third of the way to survival, top third, with points on the board ahead of a difficult few weeks. COYP!
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  #133  
Old 06-10-2019, 04:19 PM
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It was simply a very good goal by West Ham.
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Old 06-10-2019, 04:23 PM
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It was simply a very good goal by West Ham.
It was a good spell of play. The defending on the left side by pva and schlupp was however very poor.
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Old 06-10-2019, 04:46 PM
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Saves me writing anything.

People giving Schlupp a 5 and rating PVA over Guaita are just simple.
No one in the starting 11 deserved below a 6.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:17 PM
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Other than Schlupp being terrible it was a great all round performance. We edged a very good side. McCarthy should start the next game in place of Luka because McArthur was so much better than Luka in his usual role and the balance in midfield was great.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:34 PM
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I thought Ayew was great, the keeper was brilliant the whole team made me feel very proud, top four we will be there for a couple of weeks.

Shall I tell him or you ....
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:57 PM
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We were lucky again, I am very glad to say. A draw would have been fair but a good performance. I made Joel my MoM . Don't remember him putting a foot wrong against some very tricky opponents.
Having praised Cahill to my son, I thought he had the most shaky game of our defenders which obviously is not what others thought. He was much more hesitant, and almost got us into trouble two or three times. Maybe being captain got to him?
Anyway, I suppose having almost everyone's MoM being someone I thought not so good isn't bad. Schlupp disappeared a lot, and McCarthy still makes me nervous, but he has a long way to go for fitness I guess. Jimmy Mac had another good game, he just covers so much ground. No-one played badly which was good.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:53 PM
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Genuinely forgot I spent ages trawling through this thread at 1ish in the morning, pissed as a fart, having to look at my phone with one eye closed, correcting the spelling of Guaita and McArthur. What a tit.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krise View Post
It was a really well worked goal from West Ham. The quick switch of play created confusion, somebody had to press Yarmolenko, and if Schlupp was the closest, PvA should probably have been quicker to close down Fredericks. I think ideally it should have been Kouyate to close down Yarmolenko there though, and Schlupp to go wide. Perhaps the whole left side (LB, LCM and LW) will have to shoulder the blame though, and not 100 % Schlupp or PvA It's not easy to always position yourself perfectly, especially when play is shifted quickly from one side to the other.
Yep. I agree. Typically speaking we have been handling the shift from right to left OK lately (I thought we used to struggle before Roy and in his early days) if we are set to start with but this time we were disorganised from their excellent break down their left/our right and hadnít fully recovered. Macca had done a great job stifling the break itself, buying some time by channelling Andersen but he spun around and they switched play quickly on top of that. We were improvising personnel then and just looking to deal with it. So I think PVA did right to go out to him but he just allowed him too much space to make the cross by stopping. He has done it a few times lately and has this other odd habit of stopping and dropping back towards the goal line instead as if we was a rush goalie or something. Weird but he made a good block the other week Doing it so..... I would think Cahill will let him know about it

PVA never strikes me as a natural defender. Itís always looked like a learned discipline and one that almost seems counter intuitive to him. Credit to him that he has done that to this level and combined it with his attacking play and pace/stamina. Sort of player that makes me ecstatic one week and then despondent the next. Classy going forward though and I still think he is likely our best open play finisher since Bats left us. Sorry I am rambling now. Good stuff.
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