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  #1841  
Old 21-10-2019, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by teesdale99 View Post
We are hardly playing him at left back. Heís playing up front in a 442 or wide right in a 433. Every player needs to have some defensive responsibility whether thatís tracking back the opponents wide players or pressing the defenders on the ball. No excuse can be made for lack of effort or commitment and it seems wilf is teetering on the brink of this sort of accusation carrying sone weight.
I just donít see the point. Heís not good at defending and heís our best attacking option. Why waste his talents?
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  #1842  
Old 21-10-2019, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Palace View Post
I just donít see the point. Heís not good at defending and heís our best attacking option. Why waste his talents?
I think from his perspective, it's important because all of the top team managers expect their forwards to defend and/or work their proverbials off in a high press. So if he wants to go to those clubs then he has to be showing that. Maybe Messi and Ronaldo still get a relatively free pass still but can't think of any others today (and I don't know if that's still true because I rarely watch them these days). Even Aguero has adjusted to this and is really effective. Wilf has been our highest quality player for ages but doesn't have the consistency or effectiveness (goals and assists) of a Messi and has to do his share. I would genuinely be surprised if he thought any different. I don't think he has been a lazy player but his emotions too easily distract him and too often.

TBH I actually thought Wilf became really good defensively under Pardew who made a big thing about it with him. He buckled down and was pretty good. I would say that lately he has looked half ****d at it, too often going through the motions but tbh he hasn't really found his game yet this season. Just flashes/glimmer of the real guy so far.
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  #1843  
Old 21-10-2019, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
I think from his perspective, it's important because all of the top team managers expect their forwards to defend and/or work their proverbials off in a high press. So if he wants to go to those clubs then he has to be showing that. Maybe Messi and Ronaldo still get a relatively free pass still but can't think of any others today (and I don't know if that's still true because I rarely watch them these days). Even Aguero has adjusted to this and is really effective. Wilf has been our highest quality player for ages but doesn't have the consistency or effectiveness (goals and assists) of a Messi and has to do his share. I would genuinely be surprised if he thought any different. I don't think he has been a lazy player but his emotions too easily distract him and too often.

TBH I actually thought Wilf became really good defensively under Pardew who made a big thing about it with him. He buckled down and was pretty good. I would say that lately he has looked half ****d at it, too often going through the motions but tbh he hasn't really found his game yet this season. Just flashes/glimmer of the real guy so far.
I agree with that but surely the point is that in those other top teams that you highlight, they have 6 or 7 plus players who can win a game single handedly. We have one player - Wilf - who is expected to do everything. Our entire attacking strategy revolves around getting the ball to Wilf and hoping he produces some magic.

I would be so frustrated if I were him playing in this team and the way we approach games.
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  #1844  
Old 21-10-2019, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
I think from his perspective, it's important because all of the top team managers expect their forwards to defend and/or work their proverbials off in a high press. So if he wants to go to those clubs then he has to be showing that. Maybe Messi and Ronaldo still get a relatively free pass still but can't think of any others today (and I don't know if that's still true because I rarely watch them these days). Even Aguero has adjusted to this and is really effective. Wilf has been our highest quality player for ages but doesn't have the consistency or effectiveness (goals and assists) of a Messi and has to do his share. I would genuinely be surprised if he thought any different. I don't think he has been a lazy player but his emotions too easily distract him and too often.

TBH I actually thought Wilf became really good defensively under Pardew who made a big thing about it with him. He buckled down and was pretty good. I would say that lately he has looked half ****d at it, too often going through the motions but tbh he hasn't really found his game yet this season. Just flashes/glimmer of the real guy so far.
Youíre absolutely right, his defending has got better every season.
However his constant moaning is becoming a rod for his own back. When youíre 2-0 downs and trying to get back in the game you donít need your star player, literally playing into the opos hands. Wasting time and effort with Silva etc.
I bet Pep took one look at Wilf on sat and said no thanks heíll be hard work with squad harmony and in the big games will lose his head.
Good experienced defenders will have him on toast in the champions league, getting in his ear, kicking him about. Plus Iím finding it rather boring. Sure we not the greatest team on earth but he gets paid a huge amount of cash for something weíd all do for free. Sure itís easy for me to say but on big nights the best players simply get on with their jobs and do the best for the team.

City fans played him like a fiddle.
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  #1845  
Old 21-10-2019, 07:49 AM
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I don't think anyone is doubting his ability, but his effort.

To say that Man City's quality of play made him look that way is a weak argument. Losing the ball is something we can all accept, but walking back to defend instead of running back? Nope - that has nothing to do with Man City and everything to do with Wilf.
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  #1846  
Old 21-10-2019, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
I don't think anyone is doubting his ability, but his effort.

To say that Man City's quality of play made him look that way is a weak argument. Losing the ball is something we can all accept, but walking back to defend instead of running back? Nope - that has nothing to do with Man City and everything to do with Wilf.
Yep, happened a lot on Saturday, in particular for the second goal, where he made absolutely no attempt to get back and support, arriving outside the box as they scored after jogging there
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  #1847  
Old 21-10-2019, 08:15 AM
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wilf needs to look at david james playing for man u today proper effort with no little skill
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  #1848  
Old 21-10-2019, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros 69 View Post
Youíre absolutely right, his defending has got better every season.
However his constant moaning is becoming a rod for his own back. When youíre 2-0 downs and trying to get back in the game you donít need your star player, literally playing into the opos hands. Wasting time and effort with Silva etc.
I bet Pep took one look at Wilf on sat and said no thanks heíll be hard work with squad harmony and in the big games will lose his head.
Good experienced defenders will have him on toast in the champions league, getting in his ear, kicking him about. Plus Iím finding it rather boring. Sure we not the greatest team on earth but he gets paid a huge amount of cash for something weíd all do for free. Sure itís easy for me to say but on big nights the best players simply get on with their jobs and do the best for the team.

City fans played him like a fiddle.
Good post (along with Martin H)..

However his "defending" such as it is can be a liability..he very rarely wins the ball with a clean tackle...gets upset that the ref awards a free kick against him, then throws a tantrum. However I guess if nothing else it holds up the opponents attack.

And it was a clear penalty on Sat. occurred right in front of me..and everyone was in agreement we got away with one there.
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  #1849  
Old 21-10-2019, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Palace View Post
I agree with that but surely the point is that in those other top teams that you highlight, they have 6 or 7 plus players who can win a game single handedly. We have one player - Wilf - who is expected to do everything. Our entire attacking strategy revolves around getting the ball to Wilf and hoping he produces some magic.

I would be so frustrated if I were him playing in this team and the way we approach games.
I understand your point but not sure I agree. My point was about it being in Wilf's interest to show he can do that but put that to one side. What team in the PL today can afford any of their players off their 'defensive chores'. I don't suggest he should be doing a headless chicken (for his or for our sake). But doing his defensive work is part of a modern forwards role. Can't think of anyone in the PL that is excused that as I post this, can you? Maybe that's how it used be way back when - Rodney Marsh maybe? Jimmy Greaves? Tricky winters back at that time maybe but since say, Peter Taylor era that changed didn't it! And has just grown as the game has matured. That's how I see it anyway. If he plays in a 2 up front he wouldn't need to come quite so far back but would still need to press/defend etc.
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  #1850  
Old 21-10-2019, 11:02 AM
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I was wondering earlier, if there is any way we can wriggle out of paying Man Utd the sell on % in some clever way with 2 clubs (Palace and X club interested in Wilf) sharing mutual interest in transfers between them.

Chelsea for example, agree to buy Wilf for £40m, meaning x% goes to Man Utd, but we get Batshuayi on a 'free' transfer in a 'separate' deal. I know it would be obvious to all whats happened, but can the FA stipulate the minimum transfer fee a player should be sold for? If it was an entirely separate deal, can they intervene?

I only wonder this, as I genuinely cannot see Wilf going anywhere now, I don't think the top clubs want/need him, I don't think he's worth the £70/80m he is/has been worth to us, unless we are interested in a player from anyone that actually is they will never pay that and the sell on to Man Utd is the biggest sticking point as to why we won't drop the fee.

I think the Zaha and Palace journey has reached the end of the road, but not sure there is anywhere for either side to go, without a reluctant sacrifice.
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  #1851  
Old 21-10-2019, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by GrayP41ace View Post
I was wondering earlier, if there is any way we can wriggle out of paying Man Utd the sell on % in some clever way with 2 clubs (Palace and X club interested in Wilf) sharing mutual interest in transfers between them.

Chelsea for example, agree to buy Wilf for £40m, meaning x% goes to Man Utd, but we get Batshuayi on a 'free' transfer in a 'separate' deal. I know it would be obvious to all whats happened, but can the FA stipulate the minimum transfer fee a player should be sold for? If it was an entirely separate deal, can they intervene?

I only wonder this, as I genuinely cannot see Wilf going anywhere now, I don't think the top clubs want/need him, I don't think he's worth the £70/80m he is/has been worth to us, unless we are interested in a player from anyone that actually is they will never pay that and the sell on to Man Utd is the biggest sticking point as to why we won't drop the fee.

I think the Zaha and Palace journey has reached the end of the road, but not sure there is anywhere for either side to go, without a reluctant sacrifice.
I read somewhere that is some sort of independent FA panel to stop that happening.

Really sad to see this happening but sadly once he didn't get his move it was bound to happen, you only have to look back at the Van Dyck, Payet, Arnie sagas to see how this was going to turn out. Needs to be gone and asap. Don't think he has the temperament to turn it around he will always be moaning about what move he didn't get, same as he is when he doesn't get a free kick or a decision going his way. He is being carried by his team mates who are giving their all for the team and unfortunately he just isn't.
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  #1852  
Old 21-10-2019, 11:50 AM
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All Wilf is doing right now is blocking himself to get any kind of move in January.

He needs to up his game to the levels we know he is capable off if he wishes to sign for a club challenging for trophies and in the Champions League!
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  #1853  
Old 21-10-2019, 12:03 PM
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All Wilf is doing right now is blocking himself to get any kind of move in January.

He needs to up his game to the levels we know he is capable off if he wishes to sign for a club challenging for trophies and in the Champions League!
But this is the issue.

Those levels like he reached last season, didn't get those offers. He must now be thinking he's got to be even better than that to get the offer he has now actively said he wants, and I wonder if he himself thinks that's possible, hence wanting to move to Everton perhaps.

I'm not sure about his own thoughts, but it must play on your mind if you think you are worthy of the top 4/6 but realizing none of them think you are. Gonna be a kick in the nuts and surely take a bit of time getting over.

I just think that now, it's been realised that this is quite possibly it, without a serious sacrifice from both parties.
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  #1854  
Old 21-10-2019, 12:26 PM
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But this is the issue.

Those levels like he reached last season, didn't get those offers. He must now be thinking he's got to be even better than that to get the offer he has now actively said he wants, and I wonder if he himself thinks that's possible, hence wanting to move to Everton perhaps.

I'm not sure about his own thoughts, but it must play on your mind if you think you are worthy of the top 4/6 but realizing none of them think you are. Gonna be a kick in the nuts and surely take a bit of time getting over.

I just think that now, it's been realised that this is quite possibly it, without a serious sacrifice from both parties.
I'd like to agree with you & I know he's very much under contract but I suspect the only outcome to this saga is that he leaves in January, even if his performances have been below-par. Some buying club will think that this is simply because he's playing for 'the wrong team' & needs a break.

I have no idea who's going to pay our asking fee but I just think that Parish might feel that we are already in a decent enough position on the field & that the only way to stop the circus is to sell.
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Old 21-10-2019, 12:39 PM
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I wonder if he is carrying an injury? Based on no info at all, but I thought he had his worst game for us on Sat, whereas he had been getting more and more into games.
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  #1856  
Old 21-10-2019, 12:41 PM
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Probably end up at Arsenal in January for the £40M.
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Old 21-10-2019, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
All Wilf is doing right now is blocking himself to get any kind of move in January.

He needs to up his game to the levels we know he is capable off if he wishes to sign for a club challenging for trophies and in the Champions League!
Or it's a Chelsea done deal ..... For the Summer.
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Old 21-10-2019, 12:54 PM
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All Wilf is doing right now is blocking himself to get any kind of move in January.

He needs to up his game to the levels we know he is capable off if he wishes to sign for a club challenging for trophies and in the Champions League!
We are going to get stuck with him. Nobody is going to pay anything near what we value him at. He just doesnít produce on a regular basis or anywhere near it.
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Old 21-10-2019, 12:56 PM
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We are going to get stuck with him. Nobody is going to pay anything near what we value him at. He just doesnít produce on a regular basis or anywhere near it.
You make it sound like it is a bad thing if he remains an Eagle.
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  #1860  
Old 21-10-2019, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
You make it sound like it is a bad thing if he remains an Eagle.
He's paid the top wage in Palace's structure, and as such, needs to be the top performer.

If he isn't happy he won't produce the same level of performances. That will be a bad thing if the level isn't good enough.
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