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  #81  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
So much anger and so quick to condemn without knowing all the facts about this person and the context in which she spoke. The term she used is inappropriate in today's parlance, but using it inadvertently does not necessarily make her a racist
"It was taken out of context, why the fuss?"


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Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
You're obviously quite young, in your approach to life anyway.
What, because I am not a racist?

Genius.
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  #82  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
How can you conclude with certainty that someone using a phrase in a totally non racial context is a racist?

To tackle racism we need to be careful not to turn it into a witchhunt.
Because it shows deeply entrenched racism.

No matter how you may try to excuse it.
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  #83  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
I think it's fine. Plenty on the left have buried their heads at the rise of anti-Semitism, with Corbyn in particular showing a lack of leadership because many of his own associations are suspect.

That doesn't excuse any Tory racism, but it does make some of the responses on the left exceptionally hypocritical.
So are we going to have the discussion about racism in society or just watch a load of people bicker and throw whataboutery around to discredit political opponents.

Also sub point.

If the jewish people were predominantly black I think anti-semitism would be viewed with the same non plussed attitude a lot of people view anti-black racism with.

I'm not trying to place racist olympics, but take the quotes that have got major media traction when said about jewish people and replace jewish with black, muslim e.t.c. and you'll see the majority of people bat much less of an eyelid.

Is that correct? no. Are the left correct to deflect from Anti-Semitism? absolutely not.

Should Corbyn be held to account? completley.

It's just all I am seeing in this thread is people on all sides retread the old battles over an issue that has zero effect on their own lives.

The Same columnists who were saying that a Labour CLP wanting to deselect or threaten to deselect an MP who'd opposed Corbyn who was Jewish, was definitive anti-semitism, were saying that a Conservative MP, using the N-Word, live on television, was "unacceptable BUT"

Tell me that's a centre ground that really cares about racism and not political opportunism.
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  #84  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
I think this is the key.

I've read Exiled argument, and I understand it.

However, when reading it I'm minded to think about what those that have a right to be offended by these words would say and think.

Here's a quote:


And that's a polite response.

The fact is, even saying something like this is so deeply offensive to a section of our population, and shows such deeply entrenched racism, that yes, to me, if you say that, you are racist.
Would that be you and your PC mates?

That said, my brief enquiry suggests that black people would think she is stoopid for using the term, and they would certainly be rather uncomfortable hearing it (not necessarily deeply offended), causing them to view her as a potential racist.
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  #85  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
How can you conclude with certainty that someone using a phrase in a totally non racial context is a racist?

To tackle racism we need to be careful not to turn it into a witchhunt.
erm

This isn't first time she or those close to her have been associated with this kind of language

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  #86  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
Would that be you and your PC mates?

That said, my brief enquiry suggests that black people would think she is stoopid for using the term, and they would certainly be rather uncomfortable hearing it (not necessarily deeply offended), causing them to view her as a potential racist.
#acccidentalracism
"Could have happened to anyone"
"Yeah, who is racist".

btw Timbo, I imagine any black friends talking to you tone down they response to racism. I mean, they'd have to, to be friends with you.
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  #87  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
"It was taken out of context, why the fuss?"



What, because I am not a racist?

Genius.
I hope that as you get older you become more tolerant of others
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  #88  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
#acccidentalracism
"Could have happened to anyone"
"Yeah, who is racist".

btw Timbo, I imagine any black friends talking to you tone down they response to racism. I mean, they'd have to, to be friends with you.
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  #89  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:28 PM
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Yes using the N Word is what grabbed the headlines but it's so much more complex than that as to why this is unacceptable.

It highlights the fact a racist adage became an accepted use of language in British society, that shows how black people in Britain were and in some sectors, still are, treated as second class citizens or not taken seriously.

There's so so many examples of this that people want to throw into the shadows and pretend doesn't happen or doesn't exist but it's there and it's real and you can't keep ignoring every time it rears it's head so openly like this does.
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  #90  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
I hope that as you get older you become more tolerant of others
Tolerance comes with age does it?

Really?
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  #91  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
using it inadvertently does not necessarily make her a racist
Inadvertently? What word did she mean to use then?

This is probably the lamest of arguments. She said she used it accidentally, you use the word inadvertently. Do you often find yourself saying the word nigger when you meant something else entirely?

Whether or not using the word makes her a racist, it is a racist word and at the very least she has shown exceedingly poor judgement in using it.
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  #92  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidofwonder View Post
Yes using the N Word is what grabbed the headlines but it's so much more complex than that as to why this is unacceptable.

It highlights the fact a racist adage became an accepted use of language in British society, that shows how black people in Britain were and in some sectors, still are, treated as second class citizens or not taken seriously.

There's so so many examples of this that people want to throw into the shadows and pretend doesn't happen or doesn't exist but it's there and it's real and you can't keep ignoring every time it rears it's head so openly like this does.
Exactly.

Although, I find it easier just to take the piss personally.
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  #93  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
I hope that as you get older you become more tolerant of others
I hope however old I get, I never become tolerant of racism. But I applaud your attempt to patronise.
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  #94  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by brighton_eagle View Post
Inadvertently? What word did she mean to use then?

This is probably the lamest of arguments. She said she used it accidentally, you use the word inadvertently. Do you often find yourself saying the word nigger when you meant something else entirely?

Whether or not using the word makes her a racist, it is a racist word and at the very least she has shown exceedingly poor judgement in using it.
And likely shows that she uses it a lot, when not speaking in public, but just among 'friends'.

Like Timbo.
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  #95  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
Tolerance comes with age does it?

Really?
Not necessarily, but lets hope comprehension does in your case
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  #96  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by brighton_eagle View Post
I hope however old I get, I never become tolerant of racism. But I applaud your attempt to patronise.
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  #97  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:36 PM
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Not necessarily, but lets hope comprehension does in your case
You're not very good at this, are you?
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  #98  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Jukesy View Post
When you say nothing was done at the time, what do you expect? Within 24 hours, she was sacked. I, like you, wasn't there so we have no idea of the reaction of those in the room. It has been dealt with as swiftly as humanly possible.

I'd go one step further and sack her as an MP and call a by-election.
There was no reaction from the two other tories on the panel. This has been reported int the Huff Post.

When a Tory lord recently used the same phrase in the House of Lords he was pulled up on it instantly by another lord. He was not sacked.
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  #99  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by brighton_eagle View Post
Inadvertently? What word did she mean to use then?

This is probably the lamest of arguments. She said she used it accidentally, you use the word inadvertently. Do you often find yourself saying the word nigger when you meant something else entirely?

Whether or not using the word makes her a racist, it is a racist word and at the very least she has shown exceedingly poor judgement in using it.
Unlike some of the intolerant posters on here, unless proven otherwise, I am provisionally willing to accept that she intended to use the term in its figure of speech form, rather than automatically denounce her as a racist simply because she uttered the phrase. I agree with you that, at the very least, her judgement is appalling.

Do I find myself using the word?....No...Bearing in mind that I live in a predominantly black region I know not to use the N word, which itself is not much used by the population either, unless they are acting urbanized. Frankly, thoughts of using the N word just don't arise, we have loads of other terms to describe people
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  #100  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
Because it shows deeply entrenched racism.

No matter how you may try to excuse it.
Please understand I am not excusing it, and I feel a little sick that I am defending a Tory, I am simply making the point that the phrase she used in the context that she did (A no deal brexit) is not sufficient IMO to call someone out as a racist.

I like Timbo's definition 'A potential racist'.

She should be on a racist watchlist, but let us not get ahead of ourselves and create the equivalent of 'reds under the bed' which only achieves the squashing the freedom of speech and not the thing it is attempting to squash.
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