Home | Forums | Gallery | Twitter
 
CPFC BBS  

Go Back   CPFC BBS Ľ Off Topic Ľ The Politics Forum

Notices

The Politics Forum Discussions that are wholly or mainly concerned with UK politics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #61  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:04 AM
redandblue's Avatar
redandblue redandblue is offline
Chubby Chops balls drop
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Deepest Darkest Kent
Age: 49
Posts: 11,423
Rep Power: 21474855
redandblue Sam the man is hereredandblue Sam the man is hereredandblue Sam the man is hereredandblue Sam the man is hereredandblue Sam the man is hereredandblue Sam the man is hereredandblue Sam the man is hereredandblue Sam the man is hereredandblue Sam the man is hereredandblue Sam the man is hereredandblue Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
UKIP get less votes than the Loony Party

Probably more unbelievabley, despite being charged for making false expense claims, 12,401 adults thought Chris Davies was still the right person to represent them.

Oh well, so Boris now has a working majority of one.
Was more surprised labour had the largest negative swing even with Boris and a candidate who was caught faking receipts
__________________
"And then when it was all over, a thousand Palace fans stayed on to applaud their side's warm-down and the strains of Glad All Over crashed out across Selhurst. Daft little tune .......brave little team"

Sunday Mail 7/11/2004 after 1-1 with Arsenal
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:05 AM
Adlerhorst's Avatar
Adlerhorst Adlerhorst is offline
Happy Felix Day!
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hertfordshire
Age: 42
Posts: 65,008
Rep Power: 21474852
Adlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
We knew before the vote that Boris had gleaned back some of the BP vote, around 7/10%, so not entirely surprising. However, it was not enough and has revealed to all that Boris is just as vulnerable as May, despite all his blustering energy, turbo charging and optimism routines.
I think that is a little optimistic. Itís a one off, where the Lib Dem leader turned up four times and the Tories put up a hugely tainted candidate and Johnson turned up once to some factory out of town (broadly akin to Corbynís efforts at campaigning in the referendum). Itís as if Johnson didnít want to campaign too heavily in case they still didnít win.

I donít see that this can necessarily be replicated in an election (or Swinsoní going to be utterly knackered).
__________________
The Defector looks like no other breaking pitch in the game. It is well-supinated, leaving the right hand of Fernandez at a fastball trajectory before the laws of physics cease to apply and the laws of awesome take over.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:12 AM
stevek's Avatar
stevek stevek is offline
Borderline lunacy
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: On my bike on the way to a match
Age: 49
Posts: 53,651
Rep Power: 21474852
stevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is here
If (which I realise is a great simplification) we take Lib Dem + Labour as a 'remain' vote; and Brexit Party + Conservative + UKIP as 'leave/no deal' then the result is a marginally thin win for Brexit - just under 51% to just over 49%.

But given the area voted for Brexit in the referendum, it does seem evidence of a shift towards remain.
__________________
@cyclingtheseaso

I cycled to and from every Palace Premier League match, plus four cup games, in 2016-17 to raise money for the wonderful Contact charity, who support families with disabled children.

Read more about it here https://cyclingtheseason.wordpress.com

And read more about Contact here www.contact.org.uk
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:12 AM
Adlerhorst's Avatar
Adlerhorst Adlerhorst is offline
Happy Felix Day!
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hertfordshire
Age: 42
Posts: 65,008
Rep Power: 21474852
Adlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
Interesting result.

Sadly, it shows that a large percentage of the country still wants Brexit at any price and are motivated to vote for it.

It also shows that the Brexit party is still a massive threat to the Tories, and to a lesser extent Labour.

Labour are currently lost.

Libs greens and PC showed great maturity to cooperate to victory.

The two big questions:

Will Labour change direction and go for a massive coalition with SNP, PC, Greens and Libs?

Will the Tories do a deal with the Brexit party?
The question here is hardest for the Brexit Party. Theyíll have to stand aside or they seriously risk killing what they are named for.
__________________
The Defector looks like no other breaking pitch in the game. It is well-supinated, leaving the right hand of Fernandez at a fastball trajectory before the laws of physics cease to apply and the laws of awesome take over.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:16 AM
stevek's Avatar
stevek stevek is offline
Borderline lunacy
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: On my bike on the way to a match
Age: 49
Posts: 53,651
Rep Power: 21474852
stevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
The question here is hardest for the Brexit Party. Theyíll have to stand aside or they seriously risk killing what they are named for.
Agreed. Farage suggested an electoral pact. But the Conservative won't go for that. Plus, of course, if you're going to make a general election a one-issue election, why not just have a second referendum?
__________________
@cyclingtheseaso

I cycled to and from every Palace Premier League match, plus four cup games, in 2016-17 to raise money for the wonderful Contact charity, who support families with disabled children.

Read more about it here https://cyclingtheseason.wordpress.com

And read more about Contact here www.contact.org.uk
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:17 AM
Random*'s Avatar
Random* Random* is offline
*Contents: Hydrogen, Time
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Epsom
Posts: 7,030
Rep Power: 16093588
Random* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Difficult to draw strong conclusions from this. The turnout was down from 76.9% at GE2017 to 59.7%.

Brecon and Radnorshire has also been strong location for the Lib Dems in recent history - they won or were within a whisker of winning from 1985 until Lib Dem voters evaporated in 2015.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:20 AM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,015
Rep Power: 21474849
Nth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is here
The Liberals threw the kitchen sink at this and showed they still have the bi-election winning capability. There doesn't seem to have been a negative shock from the election of austerity Swinson. This was a disaster for Labour, a sign that local associations in the Tory party can be stubborn and willing to pick crap candidates but above all it gives remainers political hope. They should thank Nigel Brexit for his contribution to their victory. Unfortunately, it may harden the resolve of the Francois gang to turn the screw on any compromisers in the Tory party and embolden militant remainers to try to crush Brexit without offering concessions to the poor and regions. Overall, I'd say it hardens opinions on both sides.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:24 AM
ExiledStirling's Avatar
ExiledStirling ExiledStirling is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Stirling
Age: 58
Posts: 34,516
Rep Power: 21474846
ExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Sir John Curtice, professor of politics at Strathclyde University, said the Conservatives were enjoying a "Boris bounce" and that the result was encouraging for the party despite the loss.

Glad I don't study politics at Strathclyde...
When he appears every now and then on the BBC he does seem to talk sense and when there was a concern, from a Tory perspective, that they would be thrashed, he has a point. The seat has been LibDems for the previous 18 years prior to the 2015 election so the result is hardly a massive shock.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:34 AM
Maz's Avatar
Maz Maz is offline
Semper Idem
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: A place where nothing ever happens.
Posts: 156,873
Rep Power: 21474854
Maz has disabled reputation
It's not a shock, no.


But why is it 'encouraging'?
__________________
..
..G
abba Gabba Hey

.פɐppɐ פɐppɐ Hǝʎ


Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:42 AM
sirdougie sirdougie is offline
Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NewcastleGateshead
Age: 39
Posts: 3,662
Rep Power: 10527730
sirdougie came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietsirdougie came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietsirdougie came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietsirdougie came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietsirdougie came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietsirdougie came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietsirdougie came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietsirdougie came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietsirdougie came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietsirdougie came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietsirdougie came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
It's not a shock, no.


But why is it 'encouraging'?
Because they weren't battered, and seemingly clawed back votes from Brexit Party (still to be confirmed but looks like a lot of the EU Election shift wouldn't happen in GE). With a decent candidate elsewhere and with Lib Dems taking all the Labour remain votes, the Tories could easily win a decent majority, or at least split the opposition vote.

It was a shocking result for Labour though (not surprisingly) and shows they have to change track.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:00 AM
SE25 exile's Avatar
SE25 exile SE25 exile is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: on a small island with too many small minds.
Posts: 21,494
Rep Power: 21474856
SE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdougie View Post
Because they weren't battered, and seemingly clawed back votes from Brexit Party (still to be confirmed but looks like a lot of the EU Election shift wouldn't happen in GE). With a decent candidate elsewhere and with Lib Dems taking all the Labour remain votes, the Tories could easily win a decent majority, or at least split the opposition vote.

It was a shocking result for Labour though (not surprisingly) and shows they have to change track.
The scenario needs to be looked at in the current climate of Brexit consuming all and changing the political traditional voting patterns. Since the 2017 election we have to recognise things have changed radically, and that there are now four political voting blocks, so a win for the LibDems against that background is a testament to the power of the remain alliance.
__________________
DICTATOR JOHNSON
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:00 AM
Random*'s Avatar
Random* Random* is offline
*Contents: Hydrogen, Time
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Epsom
Posts: 7,030
Rep Power: 16093588
Random* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRandom* came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
It's not a shock, no.


But why is it 'encouraging'?
Two reasons:
1. Labour are still the Tories biggest threat, and the Labour vote was annihilated.
2. Compared to a field poll done earlier in July (To view the link you have to Register or Login) it looks like Boris may have turned the tide somewhat against the Brexit party.

If Boris can keep this going he may be able to have the Brexit Party undermine Labour rather than the Tories, and any loss of seats to Lib Dems will be more than offset by wins from Labour.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:04 AM
SE25 exile's Avatar
SE25 exile SE25 exile is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: on a small island with too many small minds.
Posts: 21,494
Rep Power: 21474856
SE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Random* View Post
Two reasons:
1. Labour are still the Tories biggest threat, and the Labour vote was annihilated.
2. Compared to a field poll done earlier in July (To view the link you have to Register or Login) it looks like Boris may have turned the tide somewhat against the Brexit party.

If Boris can keep this going he may be able to have the Brexit Party undermine Labour rather than the Tories, and any loss of seats to Lib Dems will be more than offset by wins from Labour.
This was Boris's first and best chance to make an impact during his honeymoon period, and let's face it, he has failed at the first hurdle. If he is still not trusted enough to deliver for the Tory Brexiteers then he will not get a pact with Farage and his vote will continue to be split.
__________________
DICTATOR JOHNSON
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:14 AM
daverambo2 daverambo2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,314
Rep Power: 13984784
daverambo2 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdaverambo2 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdaverambo2 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdaverambo2 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdaverambo2 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdaverambo2 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdaverambo2 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdaverambo2 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdaverambo2 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdaverambo2 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdaverambo2 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
If (which I realise is a great simplification) we take Lib Dem + Labour as a 'remain' vote; and Brexit Party + Conservative + UKIP as 'leave/no deal' then the result is a marginally thin win for Brexit - just under 51% to just over 49%.

But given the area voted for Brexit in the referendum, it does seem evidence of a shift towards remain.
Given Labour are not a remain part but a fence sitting party I donít think you can conclude anything of the sort. Given in the referendum they voted at 51.8 for leave. I suspect nothing has changed at all.
__________________
Xbox live Gamer tag: daverambo1
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:17 AM
ExiledStirling's Avatar
ExiledStirling ExiledStirling is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Stirling
Age: 58
Posts: 34,516
Rep Power: 21474846
ExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is hereExiledStirling Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
It's not a shock, no.


But why is it 'encouraging'?
I think sirdougie has answered this well.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:19 AM
eddieskyclad's Avatar
eddieskyclad eddieskyclad is offline
johnkettleyisaweatherman
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Middlesbrough/Sheffield
Age: 42
Posts: 16,911
Rep Power: 21474855
eddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is hereeddieskyclad Sam the man is here
A loss is a loss but it was much closer than anyone predicted and the progressive alliance nonsense was a huge factor that will be difficult to replicate on a national stage. Nothing for boris to be disheartened about...
__________________
Eddie Skyclad's On-Ride POV Rollercoaster Videos - Go on... watch some of them :p

Nearly 7 million views!!!

WOW!
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:22 AM
adrenalin john's Avatar
adrenalin john adrenalin john is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: out between inns
Age: 54
Posts: 32,094
Rep Power: 21474853
adrenalin john Sam the man is hereadrenalin john Sam the man is hereadrenalin john Sam the man is hereadrenalin john Sam the man is hereadrenalin john Sam the man is hereadrenalin john Sam the man is hereadrenalin john Sam the man is hereadrenalin john Sam the man is hereadrenalin john Sam the man is hereadrenalin john Sam the man is hereadrenalin john Sam the man is here
Some interesting posts on here and it's the sort of result that everyone can read what they want in it and make a case for.

What is clear is that when leave politicians say the country just wants to get on with it and leave that is simply untrue. Brecon voted leave in the referendum and have just elected a remain MP.

What is also true is that you would think a significant majority of the tory votes and all the UKIP and Brexit ones would vote some form of leave in a new referendum and given their numbers the leave virus strain is still virulent.

The country is split, and maybe the country should split. Ireland reunify and Scotland, Wales and London go independent. Englander can then be free to go full on little.
__________________
please see above
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:24 AM
stevek's Avatar
stevek stevek is offline
Borderline lunacy
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: On my bike on the way to a match
Age: 49
Posts: 53,651
Rep Power: 21474852
stevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by daverambo2 View Post
Given Labour are not a remain part but a fence sitting party I donít think you can conclude anything of the sort. Given in the referendum they voted at 51.8 for leave. I suspect nothing has changed at all.
Labour have made their position clear. While in opposition, they are a remain party. They are calling for a second referendum, and would campaign for remain in any referendum on no deal or a Tory deal. They are a clear remain party.

Of course, if there's a general election, well then they might or might not be a remain party. And if they get into power, they might negotiate their own deal. But they would put any such deal to a referendum. And they might or might not campaign for their own deal in such circumstances.

So how you can call them a fence sitting party, I really don't know.
__________________
@cyclingtheseaso

I cycled to and from every Palace Premier League match, plus four cup games, in 2016-17 to raise money for the wonderful Contact charity, who support families with disabled children.

Read more about it here https://cyclingtheseason.wordpress.com

And read more about Contact here www.contact.org.uk
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:24 AM
Maz's Avatar
Maz Maz is offline
Semper Idem
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: A place where nothing ever happens.
Posts: 156,873
Rep Power: 21474854
Maz has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
I think sirdougie has answered this well.
Thereís been some good answers, yes. But they have explained the reasons, not necessarily the reason for encouragement.

Fact is that the new leader, for all his Ďoptimismí, has lost a seat he could ill afford to lose.
__________________
..
..G
abba Gabba Hey

.פɐppɐ פɐppɐ Hǝʎ


Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:28 AM
stevek's Avatar
stevek stevek is offline
Borderline lunacy
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: On my bike on the way to a match
Age: 49
Posts: 53,651
Rep Power: 21474852
stevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is herestevek Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
There’s been some good answers, yes. But they have explained the reasons, not necessarily the reason for encouragement.

Fact is that the new leader, for all his ‘optimism’, has lost a seat he could ill afford to lose.
I suppose it's a bit like say one of the newly promoted teams gets hammered 4 or 5 nil in their each of their first ten games. They appoint a new manager and then play Manchester City away and only lose 1-0. They could hardly afford to lose yet another game, but only losing 1-0 in a game they would be expected to get hammered in would probably be described as 'encouraging'.
__________________
@cyclingtheseaso

I cycled to and from every Palace Premier League match, plus four cup games, in 2016-17 to raise money for the wonderful Contact charity, who support families with disabled children.

Read more about it here https://cyclingtheseason.wordpress.com

And read more about Contact here www.contact.org.uk

Last edited by stevek; 02-08-2019 at 09:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.