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General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum.

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  #81  
Old 15-08-2019, 12:51 PM
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Enjoyed it. The negative comments were used with the fella saying how he had no basis to believe some of what he said and that it was his own opinion, just because some disagree with it, it doesn't make it less valid. Nice to know that JD is still looking at the BBS...if just to have a little pop at one thread.
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  #82  
Old 15-08-2019, 01:39 PM
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In regard to Meyer. I thought it was common knowledge we made a late move for him (as in unplanned). I'm sure there's even a video of Meyer talking about it.
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  #83  
Old 15-08-2019, 06:32 PM
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I seriously thing those on the pod were overlooking a lot when bashing our transfer policy.

Man City CAN look long term and strategy as they have money, they are the top of the food chain/final destination for players in their peak...

To be fair our long long term strategy is supposed to be linked to the lease purchase on the youth ground. Parish has constantly said a club our size can't continue to spend big on players regularly (and the wages that go with it). However, this is WAY down the line and in the meantime we are in an awkward position in terms of balancing books. AWB fee is not all there to be spent considering the losses that happened in latest accounts.

Many of the examples given on the pod, such as Richarlison - this really is cherry picking one or two which worked out. Watford have signed plenty of players in the £5-10m bracket which have not worked out at all. We signed equivalents which have not, such as Sorloth. He was young too. It is so hard to know which will work, even with extensive scouting, especially when they are coming from abroad to England. It is hard enough to work out which Championship players will make the step up as we know from Gayle etc! And the Championship is actually stronger than many of these leagues abroad too. No-one comes cheap these days too when it comes to a Prem club coming in for them. And wages demanded are so high that it is so hard to move players on if it does not work out too, so it is vital you don't get lumbered with a player.

Just way too simplistic and idealistic look at things on the pod.
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  #84  
Old 15-08-2019, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Sir.S.C Remembered View Post
I seriously thing those on the pod were overlooking a lot when bashing our transfer policy.

Man City CAN look long term and strategy as they have money, they are the top of the food chain/final destination for players in their peak...

To be fair our long long term strategy is supposed to be linked to the lease purchase on the youth ground. Parish has constantly said a club our size can't continue to spend big on players regularly (and the wages that go with it). However, this is WAY down the line and in the meantime we are in an awkward position in terms of balancing books. AWB fee is not all there to be spent considering the losses that happened in latest accounts.

Many of the examples given on the pod, such as Richarlison - this really is cherry picking one or two which worked out. Watford have signed plenty of players in the £5-10m bracket which have not worked out at all. We signed equivalents which have not, such as Sorloth. He was young too. It is so hard to know which will work, even with extensive scouting, especially when they are coming from abroad to England. It is hard enough to work out which Championship players will make the step up as we know from Gayle etc! And the Championship is actually stronger than many of these leagues abroad too. No-one comes cheap these days too when it comes to a Prem club coming in for them. And wages demanded are so high that it is so hard to move players on if it does not work out too, so it is vital you don't get lumbered with a player.

Just way too simplistic and idealistic look at things on the pod.

Pretty much why we have gone for experienced PL players that will fit in the squad and work hard. Nothing wrong with that in the short term but long term we need to balance that with younger players coming through or unearthing gems in other leagues. Problem is though everyone else has spotted that gem and it becomes a bidding war as your a PL club or the bigger clubs have already stockpiled the younger players from your local area which is another problem with football. Bit of a vicious circle and I donít know what the answer is.
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  #85  
Old 15-08-2019, 08:57 PM
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Most realistic review of out transfer policy I've ever heard. Agree 100% with what was said. Best pod FYP has produced for yonks.
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  #86  
Old 15-08-2019, 08:58 PM
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Not saying if it is right or wrong , but I do not think we have a long term policy on player recruitment . Believe we just take one season at a time and try and get players who will keep us up . I do think that SP has realised we cannot sustain Benteke / Sakho type transfer fees and wages .
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  #87  
Old 15-08-2019, 09:07 PM
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I seriously thing those on the pod were overlooking a lot when bashing our transfer policy.

Man City CAN look long term and strategy as they have money, they are the top of the food chain/final destination for players in their peak...
I think.any team with ambitions, whether they be the millionaires or a lowly league team need a team strategy. Probably more so if you're cash strapped.
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  #88  
Old 15-08-2019, 10:20 PM
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I seriously thing those on the pod were overlooking a lot when bashing our transfer policy.

Man City CAN look long term and strategy as they have money, they are the top of the food chain/final destination for players in their peak...

To be fair our long long term strategy is supposed to be linked to the lease purchase on the youth ground. Parish has constantly said a club our size can't continue to spend big on players regularly (and the wages that go with it). However, this is WAY down the line and in the meantime we are in an awkward position in terms of balancing books. AWB fee is not all there to be spent considering the losses that happened in latest accounts.

Many of the examples given on the pod, such as Richarlison - this really is cherry picking one or two which worked out. Watford have signed plenty of players in the £5-10m bracket which have not worked out at all. We signed equivalents which have not, such as Sorloth. He was young too. It is so hard to know which will work, even with extensive scouting, especially when they are coming from abroad to England. It is hard enough to work out which Championship players will make the step up as we know from Gayle etc! And the Championship is actually stronger than many of these leagues abroad too. No-one comes cheap these days too when it comes to a Prem club coming in for them. And wages demanded are so high that it is so hard to move players on if it does not work out too, so it is vital you don't get lumbered with a player.

Just way too simplistic and idealistic look at things on the pod.
Couldnít agree more
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  #89  
Old 16-08-2019, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Sir.S.C Remembered View Post
I seriously thing those on the pod were overlooking a lot when bashing our transfer policy.

Man City CAN look long term and strategy as they have money, they are the top of the food chain/final destination for players in their peak...

To be fair our long long term strategy is supposed to be linked to the lease purchase on the youth ground. Parish has constantly said a club our size can't continue to spend big on players regularly (and the wages that go with it). However, this is WAY down the line and in the meantime we are in an awkward position in terms of balancing books. AWB fee is not all there to be spent considering the losses that happened in latest accounts.

Many of the examples given on the pod, such as Richarlison - this really is cherry picking one or two which worked out. Watford have signed plenty of players in the £5-10m bracket which have not worked out at all. We signed equivalents which have not, such as Sorloth. He was young too. It is so hard to know which will work, even with extensive scouting, especially when they are coming from abroad to England. It is hard enough to work out which Championship players will make the step up as we know from Gayle etc! And the Championship is actually stronger than many of these leagues abroad too. No-one comes cheap these days too when it comes to a Prem club coming in for them. And wages demanded are so high that it is so hard to move players on if it does not work out too, so it is vital you don't get lumbered with a player.

Just way too simplistic and idealistic look at things on the pod.
Having a strategy doesnít require any money. The point was that as a club we should be planning and thinking ahead. The fact we have: an ageing squad, an unbalanced squad overloaded with central midfielders, no replacement for Wilf already bedding in in advance of his inevitable departure, no replacement for Batshuayi or Sorloth leaving us reliant on a consistently out of form Benteke & a consistently injury prone Wickham, no replacement for AWB who left at the end of June suggests a complete lack of planning.

With regard to failing to get bodies in until the last few days of the window, this could, undoubtedly, happen occasionally but when it happens all the time & gives Hodgson little opportunity to integrate signings into the squad then Iíd suggest this is flawed & puts us at a disadvantage as evidenced by our consistent failure to begin seasons well.
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  #90  
Old 16-08-2019, 07:24 AM
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Itís all too easy to say we should have a strategy whilst ignoring many of the realities I tried to put in my earlier post.

Money is vital in this debate. Man City spend more in scouting in London for youth players than some clubs have to fund their whole academies. Man City and Chelsea (and Liverpool now) also snap up young foreign talent as soon as the rules allow, and sometimes when the rules donít allow! Thereís also VISA issues for non EU youth players at a young age, as well as EU ones in future maybe. And signing even youth lads is very expensive and so many donít work out to make it financially worthwhile. Remember Cronin came on a deal which could have been up to £1m years back when things were cheaper and ended up mainly at Ebbsfleet!

As for strategy too, this relies on knowing the style of play you will play. This relies on a manager recruitment policy. You canít say which managers you will appoint when Roy goes per se as the flavour of the month now could fall by the wayside by the time he retires. I remember being keen on Trollope and then he disappeared. But you could say Ďwe will appoint the best candidate at the time who plays X styleí. This might allow you to adopt a recruitment plan and or youth academy setup which mirrors that style. Swansea sort of did this, but it still didnít really work out as we can see now. Plus we tried a passing style and it didnít seem to work. Not saying a different manager wouldnít make it work, but itís very hard for a club our size to move away from looking over your shoulder and focussing just on survival. Much bigger sides do the same!

Financially speaking the only model that really works is going for category 1 youth academy and trying our best to recruit well at that level. Whilst the big clubs still dominate here, thereís enough local talent to make this work. It isnít cheap being cat 1 though. The other issue here is that so few managers in the Prem give youth a chance given the lack of job security etc. I personally think this has all gone way too far, but fans panic at the prospect of a youth lad even on the bench too and call it a crisis so you canít really blame a manager! This strategy though is the only one which financially works out, because even buying talent from league 1 and the championship costs huge sums and so few come good. This strategy is also best if we were to ever get relegated (bigger clubs than us have).

So personally, Iíd go the youth route. Iím bias towards it though. And you need to recruit managers who give youth a good chance and these guys are few and far between.
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  #91  
Old 16-08-2019, 07:58 AM
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You seem to be hooked up.on this idea that you need millions to have a strategy...you dont.
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  #92  
Old 16-08-2019, 08:22 AM
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The money spent, and wasted, suggests you do. If you could come up with a successful strategy in the Premier League, it would be worth millions. For what it's s worth I would go for the youth academy option and except that we will get relegated sooner rather then later but will hopefully strengthen the club in the long term.

Would fans accept this?
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  #93  
Old 16-08-2019, 08:27 AM
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He used to do the obligatory stuff, sure, but that candid interview he did with what was then HOL Radio was rare, and he pointed that out when he was on there.
That well known recluse DF is appearing on the Balance podcast today.....
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Old 16-08-2019, 08:29 AM
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The money spent, and wasted, suggests you do. If you could come up with a successful strategy in the Premier League, it would be worth millions. For what it's s worth I would go for the youth academy option and except that we will get relegated sooner rather then later but will hopefully strengthen the club in the long term.

Would fans accept this?
A plan to identify players through scouting, players that will need replacing within 2 years etc would reduce the risk. The money wasted on "gambles" and last minute "bargains" would be lessened by a structure and scouting.
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Old 16-08-2019, 08:52 AM
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I thought the pod was spot on - Tom was very insightful. Yes, he's a bit glass half-empty but that's the reality of the situation we are in. The summer window was dreadful and Hodgson hasn't been given the players that he needed in two of the key positions we are short in.

But we have to get on with it.
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Old 16-08-2019, 09:44 AM
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Having a strategy doesnít require any money. The point was that as a club we should be planning and thinking ahead. The fact we have: an ageing squad, an unbalanced squad overloaded with central midfielders, no replacement for Wilf already bedding in in advance of his inevitable departure, no replacement for Batshuayi or Sorloth leaving us reliant on a consistently out of form Benteke & a consistently injury prone Wickham, no replacement for AWB who left at the end of June suggests a complete lack of planning.

With regard to failing to get bodies in until the last few days of the window, this could, undoubtedly, happen occasionally but when it happens all the time & gives Hodgson little opportunity to integrate signings into the squad then Iíd suggest this is flawed & puts us at a disadvantage as evidenced by our consistent failure to begin seasons well.

Dunno how anyone can refute this.
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Old 16-08-2019, 09:52 AM
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It was a good show, as usual. Well done, guys.
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Old 16-08-2019, 10:35 AM
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Dunno how anyone can refute this.
Apparently you have to have money to make plans.
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Old 16-08-2019, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Maidstoned Eagle View Post
A plan to identify players through scouting, players that will need replacing within 2 years etc would reduce the risk. The money wasted on "gambles" and last minute "bargains" would be lessened by a structure and scouting.
You'll still need money to deploy your strategy but I can see your point. A club like Palace will struggle to have a plan when it comes to the acquisition of players similar to one discussed on the pod relating to Man City. However I'm assuming that, rather then checking an old copy of the Rothmans Football Yearbook, we indeed do have some kind of strategy when it comes to scouting for players but it does seem based on one of yearly survival rather then long term planning which is the reality for Palace in the Premier League.

With the failure of the the resent transfer window to acquire our player targets, I'd hope that contingency plans are in place to rectify the situation come January. This being Palace though I won't hold my breath. Here's hoping that Dougie has the latest edition of the Football Yearbook.
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Old 16-08-2019, 04:53 PM
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reading this thread makes me want to listen to it tbh. Sounds like interesting points were being brought up with a range of opinions - the mark of a good pod for me
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